Adrian Barath : A new hope for the Windies?

[shivfan]

Makes absolutely no sense that. Hinds is a far better batsman discounting his bowling abilities. Kallis and Gayle don't bat 6/7 so why would Hinds bat behind a far inferior batsman?

Well, as I've said before, I'm still not convinced that Hinds is a 'far better batsman', and I don't think a comparison with Kallis is on the cards yet....

Remember, Morton made lots of runs in our Carib Series last year and the year before, but just couldn't manage the step up to the Test level. Hinds has played 10 tests with unimpressive results to date. Yes, he was young when he was thrown in, but I haven't seen any evidence that he has changed, and can hack it against higher-quality opposition yet.

At least Simmons has shown he can hit 281 against test class bowlers, even if it is on a good batting track....

Any suggestion that Hinds would've done the same at warner Park is really a waste of breath right now, because he wasn't selected.

I would rather see Nash at four, instead of Hinds, because at least we know that he has the temperament to bat there, based on his debut in New Zealand.

 

[Beamer]

18 year old Adrian now averages 50 in FC cricket with 4 hundreds and 5 fifties in just 15 matches.

I would select him for the tour of England but not for this series. Let him get 2/3 more hundreds first.

 

[bryce]

Seems like a clear-cut enough arguement...

*Hinds has averaged 46 over the last 5 domestic seasons(including 85 this season) and in his only Test opportunities he has managed starts of some sort

*Simmons hits a somewhat enigmatic 282(when he was dismissed he was Sidebottom's first first-class wicket for six months) aswell as a couple of scores on the side

Personally i'd reward consistency and give Hinds an extended run in the side to reward him for being the shining light of all West Indies domestic FC batsman for over half a decade. I hope Hinds performs because i'd say the WI selectors would be eager to bring Simmons in regardless.

In response to the title of this thread - how does one player bring about the possibility of a "new hope"? It takes more than one player to fulfil hope - especially hope for the WI . I remember all the hype about Sarwan, people predicting he was going to average 60 in Test cricket etc, hints way too much at personal ideal conclusions(fantasies) for my liking...

 

[shivfan]

Now do you see why I'm not convinced that Ryan HInds is a Test-class batsman?

Sure, he can bully the bowlers in Caribbean domestic cricket, much like Runako Morton and Devon Smith. But, like Morton and Smith, when he steps up to Test level, he's found wanting....

Give Barath another year of domestic cricket. He's more of a prospect for the West Indies than Ryan Hinds....

 

[Manee]

Now do you see why I'm not convinced that Ryan HInds is a Test-class batsman?

Sure, he can bully the bowlers in Caribbean domestic cricket, much like Runako Morton and Devon Smith. But, like Morton and Smith, when he steps up to Test level, he's found wanting....

Give Barath another year of domestic cricket. He's more of a prospect for the West Indies than Ryan Hinds....

Give Hinds more than one innings in this stint, surely.

 

[garage flower]

This appears to have become a debate about the Windies middle order rather than the tyro Trini opener, so I’ll weigh in on the former as I haven’t yet had chance to glimpse the new messiah!

As others have said, it’s good to see a few more posters who are West Indies fans. More incentive to try to spend a bit more time here myself instead of losing all my money at online poker!

Having said that, I’m not convinced of Shivfan and Jigga’s logic in advocating for Simmons ahead of or – even – as well as Ryan Hinds.

It seems to me that Hinds has a pretty cast-iron case for being given a reasonable run.

To pick Simmons largely based on “promise” over performance and one mammoth innings in a tune-up match against the tourists would be – I think - to fall into the same trap that the selectors find difficult to avoid.

I was as encouraged as anyone to see Simmons and Barath give England the run-around, but these matches, like pre-season football friendlies, often mean very little.

Remember Carlton Baugh battering the Aussies a few years ago and – albeit in the reverse scenario – Marlon Samuels creaming Queensland for a double-ton on the 05/06 tour Down Under? Neither of those – on the face of it – stellar performances presaged a deluge of runs for the protagonists.

I wouldn’t suggest that domestic performances should be the sole criteria for selecting the test side, particularly in a competition that seems to be devalued by inadequate infrastructure and an overall lack of quality, but they must be the singularly most important pointer.

I certainly thought Ryan was unconvincing yesterday (he was very lucky not to be LBW to Swann for a duck), but I think it would be unfair to make any definitive assessment before the end of the series.

 

[Prince EWS]

This appears to have become a debate about the Windies middle order rather than the tyro Trini opener, so I’ll weigh in on the former as I haven’t yet had chance to glimpse the new messiah!

As others have said, it’s good to see a few more posters who are West Indies fans. More incentive to try to spend a bit more time here myself instead of losing all my money at online poker!

Having said that, I’m not convinced of Shivfan and Jigga’s logic in advocating for Simmons ahead of or – even – as well as Ryan Hinds.

It seems to me that Hinds has a pretty cast-iron case for being given a reasonable run.

To pick Simmons largely based on “promise” over performance and one mammoth innings in a tune-up match against the tourists would be – I think - to fall into the same trap that the selectors find difficult to avoid.

I was as encouraged as anyone to see Simmons and Barath give England the run-around, but these matches, like pre-season football friendlies, often mean very little.

Remember Carlton Baugh battering the Aussies a few years ago and – albeit in the reverse scenario – Marlon Samuels creaming Queensland for a double-ton on the 05/06 tour Down Under? Neither of those – on the face of it – stellar performances presaged a deluge of runs for the protagonists.

I wouldn’t suggest that domestic performances should be the sole criteria for selecting the test side, particularly in a competition that seems to be devalued by inadequate infrastructure and an overall lack of quality, but they must be the singularly most important pointer.

I certainly thought Ryan was unconvincing yesterday (he was very lucky not to be LBW to Swann for a duck), but I think it would be unfair to make any definitive assessment before the end of the series.

Awesome post.

 

[Jigga988]

I just think Ryan Hinds will be the new Runako Morton - which believe me is not a compliment, the guy can bully West Indian bowlers but when it comes to international cricket he's been found wanting, same with the likes of Dev Smith, though I was impressed with him facing the new ball and then equally annoyed with him for his ridiculous slog. I hope it was nervousness from Hinds' part but I'm not sure it was, give him a match after this one and see if he shows anything warrenting a place in the side...

Yes the likes of Carlton Baugh making a big total in a warm up match doesn't do wonders for my argument, but it's clear that Simmons has talent and it's not like the guy is Xavier Marshall, he's not being picked on potential alone, he's now had 2 double centuries and a number of centuries in FC cricket... if Hinds looks as uncomfertable as he has in this innings in the next match, then I just think the Windies are carrying dead weight...

 

[shivfan]

Give Hinds more than one innings in this stint, surely.

Hinds was out for six in the second innings - did you see the tame, pathetic manner of his dismissal?

Jigga's right - Hinds is the new Morton. I don't expect him to offer much. He certainly shouldn't be batting at four!

He will probably get a run in the side, and will play in Barbados and trinidad. But I bet his stats will be very disappointing at the end of the series.

Barath is the long-term solution. But I would like to see him complete a season with Trinidad, and then make the squad to tour England. Once there, I would like to see him play the warm-up matches against counties, to get experience of different conditions. Only then would I like to see him in the WI team.

Now, since we know that Hinds and Smith will only fail again and again, I believe it's time to give a chance to either Dale Richards or Lendl Simmons, who have not had a run in tests at all. Hinds and Smith have played a dozen and two dozen tests respectively, and have proven themselves to be failures at this level time and time again....

How many tests do they need to play before we accept that they're no good at this level? 50?

 

[Manee]

Hinds was out for six in the second innings - did you see the tame, pathetic manner of his dismissal?

Just one game for a stint is a bit harsh, but I too am distinctly unimpressed with the lack of application that he has shown.

 

[shivfan]

Just one game for a stint is a bit harsh, but I too am distinctly unimpressed with the lack of application that he has shown.

I accept your point - the WI made a mistake picking him, IMHO, but now that he's been picked, he needs to be given a run.

But at the end of the series, I bet Hinds will have some unimpressive stats that will have more in keeping with his current Test average than with his promising ability.

For starters, he should swap places with Nash. There's no way Hinds should be batting ahead of Nash and Shiv.

Nash at four, Shiv at five, and if we must have Hinds in the side, bat him at six....

 

[roseboy64]

How was it a mistake picking him? The guys played 10 Tests in 7 years after being picked too early and then never being given a run because of injury or illness. He's made runs the last few years in domestic cricket. Picked up a few wickets in this match. He's deserving of a run of at least 3 series. Anything else is just silly. Will reserve assessment on him until the Austalia tour.

 

[Jigga988]

How was it a mistake picking him? The guys played 10 Tests in 7 years after being picked too early and then never being given a run because of injury or illness. He's made runs the last few years in domestic cricket. Picked up a few wickets in this match. He's deserving of a run of at least 3 series. Anything else is just silly. Will reserve assessment on him until the Austalia tour.

3 series' is a bit ott, once Bravo is fit he is the most likely to be replaced, can you really have any argument against that???

 

[Jigga988]

Don't think we should bring Barath in against the two tests against England, the swing will give him a lot of trouble and as a young guy who as far as I know has only played in Windies, he'll most likely struggle against the swinging ball, and you don't want to ruin the guy's international career before it's started....

where as Dev Smith has looked good and compact against a swinging ball and his century came in England, give him a go there, he could find some form...

 

[Perm]

Hinds is the best batsmen in the Carribean behind the established Test stars (Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul). He should be batting #4 in every Test the West Indies play.

 

[roseboy64]

Don't think we should bring Barath in against the two tests against England, the swing will give him a lot of trouble and as a young guy who as far as I know has only played in Windies, he'll most likely struggle against the swinging ball, and you don't want to ruin the guy's international career before it's started....

where as Dev Smith has looked good and compact against a swinging ball and his century came in England, give him a go there, he could find some form...

Wouldn't mind Barath doing a Rashid in England though. Three warmups.

 

[shivfan]

Hinds is the best batsmen in the Carribean behind the established Test stars (Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul). He should be batting #4 in every Test the West Indies play.

If HInds is the fourth best batsman in the Caribbean, then we're in big trouble!

There's no way he should bat at four - he's not good enough for that position. And I agree with Jigga - He does NOT deserve a run of three series. He has Test experience under his belt. the time for him to perform is in the last two Tests of this series - Barbados and Trinidad.

Good to see Simmons hitting 148 not out against Guyana. He's now second in the run-scoring table, behind only Hinds himself.

I would carry Barath to england, if only for him to play in the three warm-up games against counties, and to gain experience of english conditions. He could then be a reserve batsman, if anything happened to the main guys.

 

[roseboy64]

If HInds is the fourth best batsman in the Caribbean, then we're in big trouble!

There's no way he should bat at four - he's not good enough for that position. And I agree with Jigga - He does NOT deserve a run of three series. He has Test experience under his belt. the time for him to perform is in the last two Tests of this series - Barbados and Trinidad.

Good to see Simmons hitting 148 not out against Guyana. He's now second in the run-scoring table, behind only Hinds himself.

I would carry Barath to england, if only for him to play in the three warm-up games against counties, and to gain experience of english conditions. He could then be a reserve batsman, if anything happened to the main guys.

Absolute rubbish. The best batsman in the regional competition for the last 5 years deserves a solid run in the team.

 

[shivfan]

Absolute rubbish. The best batsman in the regional competition for the last 5 years deserves a solid run in the team.

As long as Darren Ganga?

He was the best batsman in the regional competition for a number of years, and he certainly set the international stage on fire, now, didn't he?

It's one thing to reign over the lollipop bowlers served up in regional Caribbean cricket, but it's quite another to bat against international class bowlers who don't give away free runs so readily....

If he doesn't produce the runs in Trinidad and Barbados, I don't see the point in persisting with him.

Remember Morton? Another batsman who can bully Caribbean bowlers, but can't produce that kind of form internationally. Surely, it's up to Hinds to prove he's not another Morton....

Hinds has played 12 test matches now, and he averages 23 with the bat. He needs to get that average out of the Morton-Ganga mode, and move up, not down. At the moment, his average is declining. At the end of this series, if his average is not going up, it will be time to call time on Hinds....

 

[shivfan]

If we needed proof that Hinds is totally out of depth at Test level, then we should play replays of his pain-staking 15 at Kensington Oval. Swann ran rings around him!

I'm sorry, but Ryan Hinds is not cut out for Test cricket. Is this the batsman some claim is the fourth best batsman in the Caribbean?

Is this the batsman who should be given a run of two or three series?

Not on this evidence!

Barath is the long-term solution, but until he gets into the side, Hinds is not even a stop-gap. It makes more sense to give Simmons or Dale Richards a run, before Ryan Hinds....