Adrian Barath : A new hope for the Windies?

[Athlai]

Given what he did before the NZ series, I can safely say that Ramdin is above average with the gloves.

I thought quite highly of him when West Indies toured England, but he was just dreadful here. I've seen English keepers who were better.

ENGLISH KEEPERS

 

[Jigga988]

Given what he did before the NZ series, I can safely say that Ramdin is above average with the gloves.

Agreed

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well, yes, Simmons was the only WI or England batsman who scored 280-odd in that match....

That doesn't mean he was the only one capable of it. He was just the biggest opportunist. And the scale of his innings would have prevented the majority of his teammates from doing the same.

Was your point that Ryan Hinds would've done the same if he was selected? well, we'll never know now, will we? The fact is that Simmons was given the chance, and he took it....

I wasn't making that point. But for that matter, Hinds is a better batsman, so he probably would have. But as I said, I made no such point because I don't consider it to be relevant.

You think Simmons is a mediocre batsman. I don't. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, until proven otherwise. And we'll onlyknow when he gets the callup.

His domestic record, temperament and indiscipline at the crease are fair indications that he's mediocre. And as far as I can tell, you only think he's better than that based on one innings in a situation heavily favouring him.

Holder played the same number of Tests as Hinds, and they both have similar batting stats. If you think Hinds should be given another chance, you could say the same for HOlder. Unfortunately, Holder wasn't called up until he was nearly 30. At least Hinds has youth on his side....

Big difference between Holder and Hinds- Holder was given a consistent run in the team. His Tests weren't spread over 6-7 years. And at 30, Holder was almost certainly more prepared for Test cricket than Hinds was at 20. For obvious reasons.

Sorry, poor mistake there, was referring to Carlton Baugh, got those mixed up a couple times on CW and Ramdin was when in Windies U19 and maybe even a couuple years after that picked as a batsmen who could keep, has improved his keeping prodigiously since then and it's the other way round now but at the start I don't think it was.

Perhaps I'm horrible mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that Ramdin made his name in T&T cricket (before WI U-19) as a wicketkeeper-batsman.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I thought quite highly of him when West Indies toured England, but he was just dreadful here. I've seen English keepers who were better.

ENGLISH KEEPERS

So you're basing your opinion on 2 Tests? Despite the fact that you're admitting he was impressive in a 4-Test series...?

 

[Athlai]

So you're basing your opinion on 2 Tests? Despite the fact that you're admitting he was impressive in a 4-Test series...?

I said by international standards. I'd certainly rate McCullum/Boucher/Jayawardene/Rahim/Dhoni/Haddin above him.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I said by international standards. I'd certainly rate McCullum/Boucher/Jayawardene/Rahim/Dhoni/Haddin above him.

I repeat, aside from the New Zealand series he's been quite good.

 

[Jigga988]

I wasn't making that point. But for that matter, Hinds is a better batsman, so he probably would have. But as I said, I made no such point because I don't consider it to be relevant.


Perhaps I'm horrible mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that Ramdin made his name in T&T cricket (before WI U-19) as a wicketkeeper-batsman.

So how many times has Hinds scored 280 before... Hinds would have in his career batted in similar pitches against weaker opposition bowling and wouldm't have made the total Simmons did, Simmons must have played a good innings and I think your diminishing his achievement.

Btw, I am fairly certain of the opposite but I think we'll just have to put that down on the agree to disagree colunn

 

[shivfan]

That doesn't mean he was the only one capable of it. He was just the biggest opportunist. And the scale of his innings would have prevented the majority of his teammates from doing the same.

I wasn't making that point. But for that matter, Hinds is a better batsman, so he probably would have. But as I said, I made no such point because I don't consider it to be relevant.

His domestic record, temperament and indiscipline at the crease are fair indications that he's mediocre. And as far as I can tell, you only think he's better than that based on one innings in a situation heavily favouring him.

Big difference between Holder and Hinds- Holder was given a consistent run in the team. His Tests weren't spread over 6-7 years. And at 30, Holder was almost certainly more prepared for Test cricket than Hinds was at 20. For obvious reasons.

Perhaps I'm horrible mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that Ramdin made his name in T&T cricket (before WI U-19) as a wicketkeeper-batsman.

Simmons still made the runs, and that was what was required of him. None of the other 21 players were able to do what he did. He has averaged 40 so far this season opening for Trinidad, so let's see if he pushes on from here. I might re-evaluate my opinion of him after next weekend's Carib Series match, but we'll see....

And I'm not basing my call on that one innings. He has scored five other centuries in first-class cricket, including another double century, which is six centuries more than Marshall's tally!

Well, I have nothing against Hinds being given a run. I don't see it as an either-or situation. Let's see how Marshall, Devon Smith and Dale Richards perform!

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But this isn't a Simmons v Marshall argument ... it's a Simmons v Hinds argument. And Hinds is certainly more deserving of a recall before Simmons is of a call-up. Unless Simmons scores a couple more big hundreds this season, and Hinds does not.

 

[Jigga988]

Simmons still made the runs, and that was what was required of him. None of the other 21 players were able to do what he did. He has averaged 40 so far this season opening for Trinidad, so let's see if he pushes on from here. I might re-evaluate my opinion of him after next weekend's Carib Series match, but we'll see....

And I'm not basing my call on that one innings. He has scored five other centuries in first-class cricket, including another double century, which is six centuries more than Marshall's tally!

Well, I have nothing against Hinds being given a run. I don't see it as an either-or situation. Let's see how Marshall, Devon Smith and Dale Richards perform!

Pretty much sums up everything I've been trying to say on the subject...

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

So how many times has Hinds scored 280 before... Hinds would have in his career batted in similar pitches against weaker opposition bowling and wouldm't have made the total Simmons did, Simmons must have played a good innings and I think your diminishing his achievement.

What kind of argument is that? Simmons has averaged less and scored less than Hinds against in the same environment for years- pitches, opposition.

 

[Jigga988]

What kind of argument is that? Simmons has averaged less and scored less than Hinds against in the same environment for years- pitches, opposition.

A perfectly feaseble argument if you said that Hinds could have done the same thing Simmons done if he had been playing. I'm not necesserily arguing that Simmons is the better batsmen, I am just saying that Hinds would have not been able to do what Simmons did in that match... dont see why that's such a ridiculous argument.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I am just saying that Hinds would have not been able to do what Simmons did in that match... dont see why that's such a ridiculous argument.

Based on what? Based on Hinds having a far superior record against the same inferior bowlers that Simmons has been mediocre against? Think about it.

 

[Jigga988]

Based on what? Based on Hinds having a far superior record against the same inferior bowlers that Simmons has been mediocre against? Think about it.

Believe me I am thinking quite clearly about it... like I said not arguing that Simmons is a better batsmen, yes Hinds has a superior record to Simmons but Simmons on that day played out of his skin and probobly played the knock of his life... The chances of Hinds doing the same thing is highly unlikely. BTW this whole argument is really an exercise in futility, just don't like to see what was a great knock be diminished by an angry Trini.

 

[Uppercut]

I said by international standards. I'd certainly rate McCullum/Boucher/Jayawardene/Rahim/Dhoni/Haddin above him.

They're all good keepers though. Dhoni only has trouble getting in a position to take edges off the spinners, which isn't a problem for Ramdin. I'd rank him below those five too (haven't seen enough Rahim) but he's still a more than serviceable keeper. He's no iron-gloves Prior.

 

[shivfan]

But this isn't a Simmons v Marshall argument ... it's a Simmons v Hinds argument. And Hinds is certainly more deserving of a recall before Simmons is of a call-up. Unless Simmons scores a couple more big hundreds this season, and Hinds does not.

this is only a Simmons vs Hinds argument in your eyes....

I see Simmons batting at four, and Hinds batting at six or seven. I think you're underrating Hinds' bowling. He's second in the wicket-taking stakes, just one behind Wallace in the Carib Series. If he works more on his bowling, he could be a genuine allrounder.

And if Hinds can bat for long periods (not proven yet in test cricket) he could provide the support that Shiv and Nash need in the middle order.

 

[aussie]

There's been the promise of an academy for a long time now. You can read up on it here:

Jamaice Gleaner - WI Academy to open in March

And this is of interest too:
NationNews - Problems hidden from WICB

Well i shall keep my eye on it. Thanks.

 

[shivfan]

Well i shall keep my eye on it. Thanks.

We've heard this before....

The WICB have promised an academy for a while now, but it hasn't materialised yet. The Patterson report was made over a year ago, and the establishment of an academy was one of them.

To date, nothing but hot air from the WICB....

 

[Jigga988]

We've heard this before....

The WICB have promised an academy for a while now, but it hasn't materialised yet. The Patterson report was made over a year ago, and the establishment of an academy was one of them.

To date, nothing but hot air from the WICB....

Think the WICB has been slightly better considering the lack of money available to them. Increasing the amount of games in the FC tournament has finally materialised and there are plans to do more about the youth... it's not that easy, like I said there is no money in for the WICB to work with right now.

 

[roseboy64]

this is only a Simmons vs Hinds argument in your eyes....

I see Simmons batting at four, and Hinds batting at six or seven. I think you're underrating Hinds' bowling. He's second in the wicket-taking stakes, just one behind Wallace in the Carib Series. If he works more on his bowling, he could be a genuine allrounder.

And if Hinds can bat for long periods (not proven yet in test cricket) he could provide the support that Shiv and Nash need in the middle order.

Makes absolutely no sense that. Hinds is a far better batsman discounting his bowling abilities. Kallis and Gayle don't bat 6/7 so why would Hinds bat behind a far inferior batsman?