• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Choose three batsmen for the Post Packer XI middle order

Choose nos. 3,4 and 5 for the Post Packer Dream XI


  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
I know, I was mainly remarking that it was weird that people are citing Ponting's stats for the period as to why its an outrage he's not winning, while ignoring that there's one other player with better stats than Lara or Tendulkar for the period in question. Say what you like, but 5 years and 36 tests is a big enough sample that its not like its a Barry Richards or Brad Hodge that we're talking about.
 

shankar

International Debutant
stats?????
Ponting pre 2000's
2092 @ 44.51
v. England 32
v. India 36.60
v. New Zealand 39.66
v. Pakistan 63.20
v. South Africa 49.60
v. Sri Lanka 63.71
v. West Indies 39.71
v. Zimbabwe 31
Great against the best, average to bad against the rest.
Actually in pre 2000 matches Ponting did not face a Pak side with Akram and Waqar together. In matches where Akram played his record is 0,0,0,197. So against the 'best' it's great vs SA alone.
 

funnygirl

State Regular
Actually in pre 2000 matches Ponting did not face a Pak side with Akram and Waqar together. In matches where Akram played his record is 0,0,0,197. So against the 'best' it's great vs SA alone.
Ponting did well against Pakistan .what was the average of Tendulkar and Lara then against Pakistan .Not that good i guess.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
0,0,0 and 197 is not doing well in my book.. He could have done well but that sample size is too small to argue either way.. He may have had more failures, he may have had more success.. There is no real point arguing with such a small sample size. It proves nothing.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
0,0,0 and 197 is not doing well in my book.. He could have done well but that sample size is too small to argue either way.. He may have had more failures, he may have had more success.. There is no real point arguing with such a small sample size. It proves nothing.
Well it does prove one thing - the capability for large scores against that quality of opposition. But you are right that it doesn't mean that a player excells against that opposition or is bad against that opposition - only their capability of performance.
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
Actually in pre 2000 matches Ponting did not face a Pak side with Akram and Waqar together. In matches where Akram played his record is 0,0,0,197. So against the 'best' it's great vs SA alone.
So averaging just on 50 then? :ph34r:
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
0,0,0 and 197 is not doing well in my book.. He could have done well but that sample size is too small to argue either way.. He may have had more failures, he may have had more success.. There is no real point arguing with such a small sample size. It proves nothing.
As opposed to Tendulkar who also had 3 tests and averaged 30?

It's good that he also meets them post 2000 and continues scoring against them then doesn't it? However, Wasim was gone by that time and replaced by a fiery Shoaib Akhtar.

Next 4 innings 141, 7, 44, 150; averaging 93 post 2000. And this includes the neutral tests where most batsmen had trouble getting to 50.

Although I agree and that 3 tests will leave a question, it's not the same as "proving nothing". Had Ponting then failed after these tests I would have regarded them more as inconclusive. But, he didn't. If they were 3 tests and only them, I could to agree with you. I guess it's that hindsight is 20/20 and all that jazz.
 
Last edited:

shankar

International Debutant
So averaging just on 50 then? :ph34r:
The point is it demonstrates the silliness of looking at averages alone for such a small number of matches - Tendulkar in his 3 tests against Pak in '99 made a all-time great knock of 136 against Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain and little else in the rest of the series. Yet looking at the averages alone out of context one can get tricked into thinking Ponting averaged 50 proving himself whereas Sachin averaged 40 and was 'poor'. The truth is both are unproven against an attack with Wasim and Waqar.
 

Slifer

International Captain
I grew up with Cricket in the 90s and if anything I've seen more of Tendulkar and Lara bat than I have Ponting. I like the aesthetics of each batsman and they are different. Tendulkar plays text-book shots, Lara is full of flair, and Ponting is just too skillful at making runs. I never got the feeling with Lara or Tendulkar the way I did with Ponting in that with Ricky scoring centuries is almost expected. He makes it look too easy - not in the sense that his technique is perfect - but in the sense that his game is on another level.

The thing with Tendulkar is that because he was so young and so good he caught a lot of attention and a lot of praise. Lara became his rival and a sort of Agassi vs Sampras or Nadal vs. Federer rivalry came to be. But Ricky himself was surrounded by massive talent, he just kept plugging away the runs with little notice. That's why Ponting does not get the same amount of praise or does not share the same amount of infamy. But where it counts, where the record is kept, he is a step above even Lara and Tendulkar. For his scoring in all conditions, in all moments of the game, against the best and the worst, home and away and at such a high rate he stands alone. There is not a modern batsman that shares his success across the board against so many opponents. If his record in India rises to 40 by the end of his career, you may as well call him Bradman Jr.

There are things that stats don't measure, and you brought one up which I think is important. Lara did have to bat alone for a good portion of his career and didn't have the cover Ponting or Sachin did. Sachin did, however, have a good portion with either Sehwag, opener x, and Dravid coming in before him, so I don't give that difference much credence. Lara is quite amazing, I rate him just above Sachin personally. He was great against the best, and in actual fact scores more per inning than the others - it's just that his lack of not outs drag his average down. But he is a tad inconsistent and does not have the complete record Ponting does so far that I mark him down. But it's also not like Ponting came out always for 100/1, he has his own proof to show his mettle. Of course, on the whole he had it a bit easier to settle in after the openers helped wear the bowlers/ball down. As aforesaid, I give this credence I'm just not sure how to quantify it to make the difference between Lara and the others. For example, Border had a similar situation, is he better than Viv then? I don't think so.
Greg Chappell does as well, which is y im floored that he has received such little love on this forum. For me Chappell> BCL, SRT, RP, IVAR etc.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Greg Chappell does as well, which is y im floored that he has received such little love on this forum. For me Chappell> BCL, SRT, RP, IVAR etc.

There's no lack of recognition for Chappell, but his career is split between pre and post Packer with the greater proportion pre - if he doesn't make that team when the polls start that would be "flooring".
 

pasag

RTDAS
I guess you could go:

3. Bradman
4. Headley
5. Hammond
6. Sobers

Would be very disappointing if he missed out on both though, I agree.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
I guess you could go:

3. Bradman
4. Headley
5. Hammond
6. Sobers

Would be very disappointing if he missed out on both though, I agree.

I'm sure it's post War, which won't include Headley or Hammond but probably will still include The Don considering he averaged over 100 in the 15 matches he played after the War.
 

pasag

RTDAS
I'm sure it's post War, which won't include Headley or Hammond but probably will still include The Don considering he averaged over 100 in the 15 matches he played after the War.
Ah it is? Would much rather just have everything pre-packer unless bagapth wants to do a third pre-WWII XI.
 

bagapath

International Captain
Ah it is? Would much rather just have everything pre-packer unless bagapth wants to do a third pre-WWII XI.
we did teams for every two decades a few years ago, then from those 5 teams, chose a pre ww2 team and post ww2 team, finally combined those two for an all-time XI (hobbs, gavaskar, bradman, hammond, v.richards, sobers, gilchrist, marshall, warne, murali, mcgrath).

since we had 30 years to choose the post packer XI i think it would be sensible to go for post ww2 - pre packer era for the second team. waiting for the last poll in this team to start in a day or two for me to start the first poll of the next one
 

Top