Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
He is the same age and Ricky Ponting.
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*Official* England in West Indies
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
Bopara will be one day, if not right now. He is a high class player, imo. I haven't seen enough of Patel to make a judgement either.
Agree on Key not being up to it and I am a bit iffy on Shah too, but the guy deserves a chance.
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Chalk and cheese, my friend
One is a great player that is physically fine
The other is Vaughan
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Bopara isn't number 3 class. If he does break through it will be at 5.
ozone
First Class Debutant
Typical Engish attitude. Entering into the Ashes summer and we're looking to the future. Why can't we just pick the best player for today, whether it be Vaughan, Bell, Shah or whoever else. In my mind, Patel is a very long way from being anywhere near test standard ATM. We should worry about the future when we are doing well in the present.
tooextracool
International Coach
Picking Vaughan would only be somewhat tolerable, if the man could score runs for Yorkshire. It defies principle that someone who cant score runs for his county can be expected to score big runs for his country.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
I agree if they have never done it before, but once they are a proven Test player domestic runs count for less.
ozone
First Class Debutant
Trescothick? Vaughan always was a big game player (massive contrast to current number 3) and shouldn't be dismissed if he doesn't produce for Yorkshire.
tooextracool
International Coach
Patel averages more than Bell, Shah and Vaughan in FC cricket, nearly 50. Hes hardly underdone.
If we are going to pick the best batsman out there, instead of the player with the most potential to be a mainstay in the middle order, then the best available player is Mark Ramprakash.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
You know, if they did that a year ago then at least there would be a clear logic. It wouldnt be my pick but at least you could see what they were thinking.
ozone
First Class Debutant
Forget averages, I just think from what I've seen of him he doesn't look good enough to be facing up to the Australian Bowlers in a Test Match. In no way factual proof, but just my personal feelings.
A year or so ago, maybe, but there comes a point when a player goes too long without playing. And even if he was to come back, I would still have doubts about his ability to score in big games; he was stuck on 99 FC hundreds for a long time this season. On that basis, Vaughan would be the next best proven alternative.
tooextracool
International Coach
Trescothick is scoring mounds of runs for Somerset at the moment and is one of the best players going around the county circuit. Yes when he made his debut in the England side he wasnt doing as well, but he wasnt a very good player when he first came into the side, he was just a player in good form who just happened to find his way in test match cricket.
The typical English attitude IMO, is to forgive and forget very quickly IMO. 1 year ago, Vaughan was in the exact same position as Bell and people were calling for his head for his lack of performance. A year later, nothing has changed, and people are yearning for his glory days again, which we havent seen in 7 years. It really is a merry go round is English cricket and the possibility that we could pick Vaughan now, watch him fail in the ashes and then go back to Bell again ticks me off. Picking Vaughan would be settling for mediocrity, ditto picking Bell and Shah which is the state in which English cricket is at the moment. The number 3 spot is typically reserved for the best players in the side and we continually give those to the worst players in the side.
The telling thing for me was that last summer when he was looking for his hundredth hundred and the spotlight was on him and people started slowly revving up the Ramps for England bandwagon again, his form went to shot. A mere coincidence? Maybe. But I'm not sure that all of a sudden having the national press interviewing him all the time, having the TV cameras follow him to every ground, having the England selectors looking at him seriously again etc. didn't bring back all the old insecurity issues.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
That is taking the piss.
Vaughan is frustrating but he has produced and at important times.
His record is impressive and calling a player like him the worst in the team is plain wrong.
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I agree with Goughy when he says that FC performances for a player like Vaughan are largely irrelevant - the guy is obviously good enough and runs v a county side dont really count for much
Having said that, IMO the only way he gets picked again is as captain because its a short term option and that's where he's most valuable
Does Eng need him in that role?
Too early to tell IMO
Having said that, IMO the only way he gets picked again is as captain because its a short term option and that's where he's most valuable
Does Eng need him in that role?
Too early to tell IMO
