**Official** New Zealand in Australia

[vic_orthdox]

I'm surprised by the lack of discussion about McCullum's huge appeal for Dussey's phantom edge.

That was also a fairly clear case of celebrating the dismissal of a batsman you know isn't out, right? Except in this case, he didn't just celebrate it, he manufactured it out of nothing.

Hmmmm.

Was thinking of mentioning it myself at some stage, but thought I would be accused of trying to sidetrack the conversation.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I'm surprised by the lack of discussion about McCullum's huge appeal for Dussey's phantom edge.

That was also a fairly clear case of celebrating the dismissal of a batsman you know isn't out, right? Except in this case, he didn't just celebrate it, he manufactured it out of nothing.

Hmmmm.

It was blatant cheating by a guy who is, according to reliable reports, a bit of a **** and other words starting with ****. The worst part was, when noone mentioned it later, he said to himself in his head that he was 100% sure and denied knowing it had missed the bat by 4 metres. This, to me, is far worse than the actual incident itself. Just admit it to yourself Brendan! You're a lowlife, and I hope any appeal you make in the future is treated with the scrutiny it deserves. If the man asks someone to pass him the salt at the dinner table his request should be forwarded to the 3rd umpire to see if it's valid. He'll probably be eating cereal at the time.

 

[biased indian]

This says it all the ball is already in his gloves and the bails have not moved a mm..he should have known it.... what ever cricket i have played tell me he should have known it

 

[pup11]

My opinion about all this is Ponting has really made this worse for Haddin and everyone concerned with this episode by using the word "cheat" and "cheater" in this whole context.

I mean no professional sportsman likes to be associated with those words, and the whole thing seems to have forced Haddin into an ultra-defensive mode, where he is trying to do everything to convince he isn't a cheat (which i don't think the Black Caps were suggesting), but he is looking like a real idiot atm and rather than accepting his mistake and moving on with, he is making this worse by counter-attacking Vettori for his comments.

 

[Son Of Coco]

As a keeper, albeit at zillion levels lower in terms of standard of cricket, I think it is almost impossible to not feel your glove hitting the stumps and dislodging the bails, even if it is by the slightest possible bit... We always know... IT is like nicking the ball to the keeper, even the faintest of nicks, almost all the time the batsman pretty much knows he has nicked it....

Really, with rubber caps in the fingertips and the ball hitting your gloves at almost the same time? I'd be surprised to be honest. Unless your gloves are made out of real skin and have nerve endings

 

[social]

As a keeper, albeit at zillion levels lower in terms of standard of cricket, I think it is almost impossible to not feel your glove hitting the stumps and dislodging the bails, even if it is by the slightest possible bit... We always know... IT is like nicking the ball to the keeper, even the faintest of nicks, almost all the time the batsman pretty much knows he has nicked it....

If I nicked it, I always walked but then again on the rare occasion that I did nick one, it was a wide so not out

 

[Zinzan]

It was blatant cheating by a guy who is, according to reliable reports, a bit of a **** and other words starting with ****. The worst part was, when noone mentioned it later, he said to himself in his head that he was 100% sure and denied knowing it had missed the bat by 4 metres. This, to me, is far worse than the actual incident itself. Just admit it to yourself Brendan! You're a lowlife, and I hope any appeal you make in the future is treated with the scrutiny it deserves. If the man asks someone to pass him the salt at the dinner table his request should be forwarded to the 3rd umpire to see if it's valid. He'll probably be eating cereal at the time.

 

[vic_orthdox]

If I nicked it, I always walked so if I was given not out I didnt hit it

And on the rare occasion that I did, it was a wide so not out

 

[biased indian]

It was blatant cheating by a guy who is, according to reliable reports, a bit of a **** and other words starting with ****. The worst part was, when noone mentioned it later, he said to himself in his head that he was 100% sure and denied knowing it had missed the bat by 4 metres. This, to me, is far worse than the actual incident itself. Just admit it to yourself Brendan! You're a lowlife, and I hope any appeal you make in the future is treated with the scrutiny it deserves. If the man asks someone to pass him the salt at the dinner table his request should be forwarded to the 3rd umpire to see if it's valid. He'll probably be eating cereal at the time.

then what about tait who appealed for the lbw after a big inside edge by the poor angel Brendon

 

[Son Of Coco]

This says it all the ball is already in his gloves and the bails have not moved a mm..he should have known it.... what ever cricket i have played tell me he should have known it

...watch the video and tell me his gloves aren't moving. If you're going to go on a screen capture then...you're a little silly.

 

[Zinzan]

...watch the video and tell me his gloves aren't moving. If you're going to go on a screen capture then...you're a little silly.

Quick, your veges are boiling

 

[biased indian]

...watch the video and tell me his gloves aren't moving. If you're going to go on a screen capture then...you're a little silly.

if the keeper was dhoni and the batsmen was ponting ..screen shots would have been the order of the day

 

[thierry henry]

I'm actually not that cut up about it. I reckon Haddin just wasn't sure.

I always remember a game from the 2004/05 tri-series (think it was Pakistan v Australia). Shoaib Malik took a low catch and told the umpires that he wasn't sure whether it was clean. To his dismay the umpires decided not to even go upstairs unless he was willing to claim it. He was gesturing for them to go to the third umpire and trying to convey that he simply wasn't sure, and, I suppose because umpires are so used to fielders claiming dodgy ones, they decided it wasn't out. As it turned out, replays confirmed he took it clean as a whistle.

I don't even know what the rule is regarding bowled dismissals and the 3rd umpire- are you allowed to use it or not? I'll bet Haddin didn't know either- there was a very real possibility (at least in his mind) that (a) it might have been a regulation bowled dismissal, and (b) by raising doubt about it, the umpires might give it not out without even going upstairs.

The point people often seem to overlook is you really only have a few seconds to mentally process what has just happened and figure out whether to appeal/admit you're not sure/withdraw your appeal, and also to figure out all the permutations, whether there's a chance that by raising doubt a legitimate dismissal will be overturned, how your teammates and the media etc will react if that happens, and so on.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

If I nicked it, I always walked but then again on the rare occasion that I did nick one, it was a wide so not out

 

[_Ed_]

I'm actually not that cut up about it. I reckon Haddin just wasn't sure.

I always remember a game from the 2004/05 tri-series (think it was Pakistan v Australia). Shoaib Malik took a low catch and told the umpires that he wasn't sure whether it was clean. To his dismay the umpires decided not to even go upstairs unless he was willing to claim it. He was gesturing for them to go to the third umpire and trying to convey that he simply wasn't sure, and, I suppose because umpires are so used to fielders claiming dodgy ones, they decided it wasn't out. As it turned out, replays confirmed he took it clean as a whistle.

I don't even know what the rule is regarding bowled dismissals and the 3rd umpire- are you allowed to use it or not? I'll bet Haddin didn't know either- there was a very real possibility (at least in his mind) that (a) it might have been a regulation bowled dismissal, and (b) by raising doubt about it, the umpires might give it not out without even going upstairs.

The point people often seem to overlook is you really only have a few seconds to mentally process what has just happened and figure out whether to appeal/admit you're not sure/withdraw your appeal, and also to figure out all the permutations, whether there's a chance that by raising doubt a legitimate dismissal will be overturned, how your teammates and the media etc will react if that happens, and so on.

Yeah, fair enough. Maybe he wasn't sure.

But I don't think he should have said he was "100% certain" today.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I'm surprised by the lack of discussion about McCullum's huge appeal for Dussey's phantom edge.

Over shadowed by a bigger incident, tbh.

That sort of catch is something you see more often than the Haddin thing.
Maybe someone should ask McCullum how sure he was that it was out?

 

[biased indian]

I'm actually not that cut up about it. I reckon Haddin just wasn't sure.

exactly...when the batsmen showed that doubt you don't run towards your team mate and celebrate. you either tell the batsen the Australian way "mate i am also not sure" or tell that to the umpires ..

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I'm actually not that cut up about it. I reckon Haddin just wasn't sure.

I don't think people are that "cut up" about the actual dismissal, just the bolded part and following statement by said player.

Anyways.....

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah, fair enough. Maybe he wasn't sure.

But I don't think he should have said he was "100% certain" today.

btw, congrats on 10,000 posts

 

[thierry henry]

Was thinking of mentioning it myself at some stage, but thought I would be accused of trying to sidetrack the conversation.

My honest opinion (which is a pure guess going by instinct) is that Haddin really wasn't sure what had happened, whereas McCullum had no inkling that there was an edge (given that the bat and ball were miles away from pad/glove etc and there was absolutely no sound or deflection) and just appealed, probably because it was a wide. For me, that's stone cold cheating, but I guess since it was a less novel incident it doesn't get any scrutiny.

I feel more for Haddin who is forced into confusing circumstances by a strange turn of events, whereas as I said, McCullum has basically just gone "righto, I'll randomly appeal and hopefully get a wicket when I know it's not out".