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**Official** New Zealand in Australia

Precambrian

Banned
Bah, Ponting's an idiot for blowing this thing up. Vettori tactfully answered the question and tried to minimise the issue but Ponting had to go and escalate it.
So true. In fact he has overblown by suggesting Vettori called Haddin a cheat. What a sore loser. Vettori was gentlemanly in suggesting what was clear was a mistake from Haddin, if not intentional. Instead of watching the replay atleast, Ponting has gone ultra defensive and talked rubbish. Another indication that he is not taking captaincy well atm.
 

Burgey

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do you understand what a troll even is?lol.you should check out the NFL boards-that is trolling.i didnt know this was a aussie board.that would be trolling.i would accuse you of trolling for besmirching this board with your delusionals and personal attacks.
Look, come on here if you want and say Haddin's a cheat, or if you want to, say he did that thing last night deliberately.

But don't call everyone who plays for Australia a cheat, because it's a generalisation. It'd be like me saying everyone who plays for any team where a player does something nefarious is automatically a cheat. It's wrong, it's a personal attack on an individual's integrity, and you're a knob for saying it.

And yes, the last comment I made is a personal attack. Seeing as you accused me of it, I thought I'd make your prophecy a self-fulfilling one. :)
 

JBH001

International Regular
do you understand what a troll even is?lol.you should check out the NFL boards-that is trolling.i didnt know this was a aussie board.that would be trolling.i would accuse you of trolling for besmirching this board with your delusionals and personal attacks.
Dude, get a grip. What have NFL boards peopled by other posters and moderated by other mods got to do with this forum. Absolutely nothing. I get where you are coming from. Frankly, at times, I feel CW too sanitized and over-moderated. Mods are certainly, in my view, over keen with the ban and suspension stick, and come to that, there are probably too many mods for what seems to me to be a rather small board. That said, people around here (me included) do, at times, tend to forget that it is just a game and get drawn into long, heated, and essentially (but always only in retrospect) useless arguments. Point is that these are the rules here, so stick to them.
 

JBH001

International Regular
howardj;1809218 said:
Aussie cricketers resting at this stage of the year (and of the Series) is like a butcher going on sabbattical leading up to Thanksgiving; a retailer shutting up shop prior to Christmas; a Treasurer pissing off to the Bahamas before a Budget.

Not on.
Agree with you (and with social) on this. They are being paid to play the best game in the world. I wish I were that lucky.

Still, if the schedule is what it is made out to be, then from a player management point of view, it is difficult to argue against rotation, imo. But, as I said, I doubt this will be successful, both from the point of view of the fans who it is really going to piss off, and in terms of overall performance. A poor show from cricket and team Australia.
 

cowboysfan

U19 Debutant
Look, come on here if you want and say Haddin's a cheat, or if you want to, say he did that thing last night deliberately.

But don't call everyone who plays for Australia a cheat, because it's a generalisation. It'd be like me saying everyone who plays for any team where a player does something nefarious is automatically a cheat. It's wrong, it's a personal attack on an individual's integrity, and you're a knob for saying it.

And yes, the last comment I made is a personal attack. Seeing as you accused me of it, I thought I'd make your prophecy a self-fulfilling one. :)
i apologize if you thought that i said all aussie players are cheaters which ofcourse is not the case.
 

Burgey

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Agree with you (and with social) on this. They are being paid to play the best game in the world. I wish I were that lucky.

Still, if the schedule is what it is made out to be, then from a player management point of view, it is difficult to argue against rotation, imo. But, as I said, I doubt this will be successful, both from the point of view of the fans who it is really going to piss off, and in terms of overall performance. A poor show from cricket and team Australia.
Ironically, the time to implement it would have been 2-3 years ago, when they arguably had players to cover the absence of blokes like Ponting. IIRC they've done it before to an extent, but there's been a bit of a backlash against it. Now, I really don't see how they can afford to rest someone like him.
 

Burgey

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i dont know what that means but you should get off your high horse.i would be ashamed of my players if they continue blatantly cheating.
sure you can if the team has made cheating into an art form-i guess you have forgotten a lot.
umpires should be aware that aussies will try every trick in the book-they should be very vigilant in every dissmisal.
you are giving him the benefit of the doubt-fair enough,unfortunately previous incidents by other aussie players means i cannot.
Oh well.

Anyway, CBF (a thoroughly appropriate username, it must be said), who are "your players"?
 

JBH001

International Regular
Frankly, I am surprised to see Ponting agreeing to rest. Whatever Ponting's faults as a captain and cricketer, lacking fight has never been one of them. I would have thought that he would want to captain his team through a tough patch and bring them out the other side, good and strong once again. He may or may not succeed in doing that, but I dont think him the kind of cricketer or person who would shirk from the attempt and from trying as hard as he could to make it happen, whatever the eventual outcome.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Ironically, the time to implement it would have been 2-3 years ago, when they arguably had players to cover the absence of blokes like Ponting. IIRC they've done it before to an extent, but there's been a bit of a backlash against it. Now, I really don't see how they can afford to rest someone like him.
So true. Ponting rested in a live series match would give all sorts of the worst negative messages to the public as well as the teammates. Not to mention the ill-will accompanying it, "He's going to burn his bum in India for two months in the hottest weather, so he can't play two matches for his home country when it needs him" kind of thoughts.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Frankly, I am surprised to see Ponting agreeing to rest. Whatever Ponting's faults as a captain and cricketer, lacking fight has never been one of them. I would have thought that he would want to captain his team through a tough patch and bring them out the other side, good and strong once again. He may or may not succeed in doing that, but I dont think him the kind of cricketer or person who would shirk from the attempt and from trying as hard as he could to make it happen, whatever the eventual outcome.
I used to think about him like that. However these days I am wondering whether all his fighting spirit is all talk and no walk. Case in point include but not limited to Nagpur Test 2008, when he ostensibly put fear of a ban in front of team;s chance of winning. So that he could play a test against NZ. Ironically the same team against which he is getting rested now.
 

Johnners

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Wow, the last few pages have been absolutely pathetic. Sure, Haddin made a mistake, probably knowingly, and still appealled. How that equates to "All Australians are cheaters etc. etc." is beyond me. It actually feels kinda reassuring that most people still have to pounce on a mistake made by an Australian player moreso than they would players from any other country.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
So true. In fact he has overblown by suggesting Vettori called Haddin a cheat. What a sore loser. Vettori was gentlemanly in suggesting what was clear was a mistake from Haddin, if not intentional. Instead of watching the replay atleast, Ponting has gone ultra defensive and talked rubbish. Another indication that he is not taking captaincy well atm.
No he suggested the Haddin "knew something was wrong" and should have done something about it. That's utter rot and is akin to calling Haddin a cheat. Vettori could have been much more diplomatic with his comments.

Then again, as with everything in life, those who acheive more highly are held to higher standards of accountability than those who don't and Australia have been acheiving far more highly than other teams for a long time now. If Dhoni had have done the same thing I'm sure that we'd have one million Indian supporters defending him. Seriously, watch the whole incident in real time. His gloves were in front of the stumps (mind you only the tips of his gloves) for a split second and there was no question from anyone at all about the incident until the slow motion replay was seen. Even then the replay doesn't exactly damn Haddin, just suggests that the gloves may have played a part in dislodging the bails.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It is disappointing that the Haddin controversy happened, because the runout that was given not out by the third umpire was a far more disgraceful decision. Even Tony Grieg, the most one-eyed anti-Australian (that's what he's paid for really) admitted that the batsman should have been given out. It was clear that the third umpire had not looked at all the angles and made a poor decision. That's far worse than a split second real time event where a player might have felt something a little dubious.
 

_Ed_

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We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I agree that it maybe should have been given, but I believe the Haddin dismissal was a lot worse.

And by the way, IMO Greig is pro-Australia when they're playing anyone but SA (or even if they're playing SA and winning).
 
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Precambrian

Banned
No he suggested the Haddin "knew something was wrong" and should have done something about it. That's utter rot and is akin to calling Haddin a cheat. Vettori could have been much more diplomatic with his comments.

Then again, as with everything in life, those who acheive more highly are held to higher standards of accountability than those who don't and Australia have been acheiving far more highly than other teams for a long time now. If Dhoni had have done the same thing I'm sure that we'd have one million Indian supporters defending him. Seriously, watch the whole incident in real time. His gloves were in front of the stumps (mind you only the tips of his gloves) for a split second and there was no question from anyone at all about the incident until the slow motion replay was seen. Even then the replay doesn't exactly damn Haddin, just suggests that the gloves may have played a part in dislodging the bails.
Suggesting that Haddin might have known that not everything was hunky dory is nowhere in the same ship as suggesting he is a cheat. Vettori suggested Haddin might have made a mistake, and was not sure about it, and ideally should've consulted the ump if he was not sure, as was evident from his body language.

And the replays are anything but conclusive. Majority here felt that Haddin broke the stumps and collected the ball in the gloves. Even Cricinfo says so. And so does Fox. And almost all newspapers as well as posters in CW. However, there is absolutely no-one who says Haddin had his gloves in front of the stumps, and that is an unpardonable mistake at this level.
 

KiWiNiNjA

International Coach
No he suggested the Haddin "knew something was wrong" and should have done something about it. That's utter rot and is akin to calling Haddin a cheat. Vettori could have been much more diplomatic with his comments.
Your kidding, right?
Saying "he knew something was wrong" is not the same as "he is a cheat". Vettori was being diplomatic, it is Ponting who has tried to make it bigger.

"knew something was wrong" = in the moment he was hesitant, there was doubt, and probably in hindsight should have questioned whether it truly was a dismissal.
 

Precambrian

Banned
It is disappointing that the Haddin controversy happened, because the runout that was given not out by the third umpire was a far more disgraceful decision. Even Tony Grieg, the most one-eyed anti-Australian (that's what he's paid for really) admitted that the batsman should have been given out. It was clear that the third umpire had not looked at all the angles and made a poor decision. That's far worse than a split second real time event where a player might have felt something a little dubious.
Lol, that's really poor stuff from you. Bringing in another doubtful albiet ultimately given in favor of batsman due to too much doubt, which was the right thing, to defend an atrociously poor dismissal involving Haddin. More than blaming Haddin, I;d blame umpire Oxenford, who failed to spot that his gloves were in front of the stumps, and such stuff would be picked even in street cricket.

And just for argument sake, what about the McCullum dismissal then?
 

Burgey

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I'll be interested to see the referral system in use for the SA-Aus series (we haven't had that much exposure to it here).

Don't want to hijack the discussion on here, but really are we at a point where we'll need to refer everything, by that I mean every appeal unless it's very obvious? Interestingly, would last night's decision have been referred anyway? I suppose the batsman would have gotten a shout from the shed to stay there and refer it.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Wow, the last few pages have been absolutely pathetic. Sure, Haddin made a mistake, probably knowingly, and still appealled. How that equates to "All Australians are cheaters etc. etc." is beyond me. It actually feels kinda reassuring that most people still have to pounce on a mistake made by an Australian player moreso than they would players from any other country.

I guess you'll be thrilled to hear my Kiwi mate who lives in Elsternwick, Melbourne, reckons he's going to go to the G on Friday night with the banner "Haddin - that's un-Australian".... :cool:
 

_Ed_

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And just one more point on Haddin - it wasn't because he's Australian, or just because it went against us (although that was undeniably a factor in my initial reaction, I'd be lying if I denied that). We won the match, it doesn't matter.

But if McCullum, who is one of my favourite players, had done it, I'd never forgive him for it.
 

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