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Johan Botha's action

Do you think Johan Botha's action is suspect?

  • Total voters
    80
JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
Top_Cat said:
Lee and Tait have been tested (and cleared, like Murali) and Lee has even been reported. If you don't like the look of the action, fine, but the science has cleared them. No-one is ignoring anything.
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Agreed.

But, I do think Jono makes a good point about this:

You might not be ignoring anything, but there are bucketload of fans who will call Murali a chucker, yet go gaga over Tait's bouncer that nearly rips a batsman's head off...but there's inconsistency among those who claim dodgy actions amongst some, and not others. That's undeniable.
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All of these bowlers have been tested and cleared in conditions simulating match conditions. The old argument, in the case of Murali for instance, that he 'fakes' the testing is utter BS. As I recall he was required to match and meet, for example, the same standards of pace and spin he does in a test match. Now does this mean that he does not possibly chuck in a test match? I dont know. Certainly it is probable that after a long and testing spell, his action may deteriorate (especially the doosra). If so, and as I have said before, I am frankly not all that fussed. Neither am I fussed if Tait, Lee, or Akhtar chuck their effort balls. Far too much is made of the whole chucking thing imo. As long as it is not a consistent thing, I am fine with it.

I do have to agree though that Botha's action certainly does look very ugly.
 
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JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
Precambrian said:
Yeah am back. A bit wiser.

Bio-mechanical tests are not conducted by fools or scientists ignorant of cricket. They are conducted in circumstances simulating match conditions. They will notice whether the bowler is deliberately under-spinning or under-pacing the deliveries.

As to Hair, it is actually the job of the square leg umpire to call for suspect action. Hair was at the bowler's end, and yet he noticed it. How can the bowling end umpire look at the arm as well as the foot (for no ball) at the same time? And Ranatunga did not lead the team off in that match. He simply stopped Murali from bowling further in that match. Later he took up the case with the authorities and requested what was exactly wrong with him, so that it could be corrected. No reply was received. And later in an ODI, (after getting all clear about his action) the Australian umpire, Roy Emerson continued calling him no-ball. This upset Ranatunga, as Murali had been cleared by ICC, and yet this umpire was calling him. It later emerged that Emerson was not 100% mentally fit.
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Good summation regarding the bio-mechanical tests.

Regarding the Hair and Emerson saga. The Emerson call happened during an ODI in 1998 while the Hair no-balling incident happened on the 95/96 tour. In the intervening period Murali had been tested and cleared. Hence Arjuna's reaction. But what made it worse was the fact that after the initial call, Murali began bowling leg spinners to complete the over which Emerson still called for no-balls. As it is virtually impossible to throw a leg spinner (and keep it on the pitch) Arjuna felt he had had enough, and marched off the pitch. Full power to him, I say, for sticking by his bowler (especially in those dubious and suspect circumstances).
 
JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
Voltman said:
Guys, it's probably best not to mention that any Australian bowler in any way, shape or form may have an action that doesn't look ideal in terms of legality. The shrieking and wagon-circling just really isn't worth it.
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:laugh:
 
Jigga988

Jigga988

State 12th Man
To the arguments regarding effort balls usually being a time where a bowler chucks it, just like to bring up Marlon Samuels, he got tested not for a typical delivery but ONLY for his quicker delivery, or effort ball if you will. Can't remember what happened as it was during the whole bookies scandal but I think he was banned from bowling that particular delivery and I'm not entirely sure whether he was banned from bowling... don't think he was.
 
JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
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Uppercut

Uppercut

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JBH001 said:
Found this a really interesting doco with Mural and Shastri. Includes Murali bowling at Slater in a brace. Definitely worth a look.

YouTube - Proof that Muttiah Muralitharan does not chuck

Edit/ That link, for some reason, brings up Murali and Nicholas during the Australian tour 2006. Scroll down the right (about 6 down) to "Proof that Murali does not chuck."

Edit 2/ This link works. YouTube - Proof that Muttiah Muralitharan does not chuck.flv .
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Interesting. Funny how Murali doesn't say a word for the entire thing, he just stands there and gets tampered with.
 
Jungle Jumbo

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
The best proof for Murali not throwing the ball that I've seen was the footage recorded by Channel 4 (back in 2002? on Sri Lanka's tour?) of Murali bowling with a solid cast on with no discernable change of action.

EDIT: Yeah, should have watched the link above before posting.
 
Jono

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Top_Cat said:
Good for them. They're stupid. You're not. Don't be them.
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Well thanks TC. :dry:

I don't see how I'm 'being stupid' by suggesting that there is an inconsistency of concentrating on one bowler, who is a spin bowler, and not on the other, who hurts people. If Tait has been tested and cleared (proof? link?) fine. But I've brought attention to what I think is an inconsistency of fans (and sometimes authorities), and you've just ignored it and acted like the mere suggestion that a guy who can rip down the ball at over 155km/h (which is good for the game, don't get me wrong) could have an illegal action at times. Well dear God, shoot me for implying such a thing.
 
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JBH001

JBH001

International Regular
Uppercut said:
Interesting. Funny how Murali doesn't say a word for the entire thing, he just stands there and gets tampered with.
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Maybe he thinks that actions are worth more than a lot of words in his defense. Besides, he was probably tired of repeating himself.
 
Top_Cat

Top_Cat

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Jono said:
Well thanks TC. :dry:

I don't see how I'm 'being stupid' by suggesting that there is an inconsistency of concentrating on one bowler, who is a spin bowler, and not on the other, who hurts people. If Tait has been tested and cleared (proof? link?) fine. But I've brought attention to what I think is an inconsistency of fans (and sometimes authorities), and you've just ignored it and acted like the mere suggestion that a guy who can rip down the ball at over 155km/h (which is good for the game, don't get me wrong) could have an illegal action at times. Well dear God, shoot me for implying such a thing.
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*BLAM!*

Just saying that the inconsistency you're referring to only really exists in the fans so doesn't impact on Tait being reported. Murali himself is a bit of a freak case in that he's received more attention than would be expected for any bowler (ridiculously unfair, in my view) so he's a bit of an outlier. Tait, like most other quicks, receives his due attention (no web link, obv; it's all in-house and I only hear it through the grapevine) and if anyone was to be targeted for having an unfair action, a bloke as dangerous as as he can be would be a big, big target.

And that there is a key too. Whispers from the players themseles have an impact too. If the guys who have to deal with the business-end of his bowling starting whispering about it, you can bet the farm that he'd be looked at. Again I can't link to this so feel free to disregard but, yes, even before playing his first state game, Tait's 'whip' was queried by the players he faced, largely because he was so damn quick (clocked at 144km/h when he was 17) but also because he 'looks' bad.

My point is that guys like him always attract attention which gets racheted up multiples when playing internationals. He has never been ignored, has been tested and has come through as clean, if ugly. The whispers from the players have largely stopped too, recent attention from NZ notwithstanding so although his action is far from textbook, you can be fairly certain that although it looks bad, he's probably pretty legal.
 
pup11

pup11

International Coach
Jono said:
Well thanks TC. :dry:

I don't see how I'm 'being stupid' by suggesting that there is an inconsistency of concentrating on one bowler, who is a spin bowler, and not on the other, who hurts people. If Tait has been tested and cleared (proof? link?) fine. But I've brought attention to what I think is an inconsistency of fans (and sometimes authorities), and you've just ignored it and acted like the mere suggestion that a guy who can rip down the ball at over 155km/h (which is good for the game, don't get me wrong) could have an illegal action at times. Well dear God, shoot me for implying such a thing.
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Inconsistency of fans could be because Tait is half the time injured and on the bench and has somewhere around 50 international wickets, whereas Murali is a world-beater has more than 1000 international wickets, and some ****ty people get jealous of it and try to bring him down, i am sure Tait would also face more of such allegations as his career prolongs and he takes more wickets and plays against more teams, because lets face it both Murali and Tait don't have classic actions which would always get some idiot going, but as TC said both have had their actions cleared, so if still some ridiculous opportunistic people try to bring such blokes down when they are doing well, they shouldn't be given any importance whatsoever imo.
 
vic_orthdox

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Having elbow injuries and having to tape it all the time probably won't help halt the talk about Tait chucking.
 
Craig

Craig

World Traveller
In all my years following cricket and watching Tait bowl, I have never for one second considered Tait to chuck, looks fine to me.

Mind you apparently Ramnaresh Sarwan has a 'perfect' action so to speak.
 
Son Of Coco

Son Of Coco

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
luffy said:
I honestly don't reckon it's dodgy at all.

But really, every fast/medium bowler chucks it.

Most you don't notice because it's not much, but the like of Akhtar, Tait, Lee, etc, they look like they chuck it more.
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For ****'s sake...not this rubbish again...
 
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