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***Official India in New Zealand***

biased indian

International Coach
Think kiwis have decent bowling line up ..but there batting is way below when compared to our batsmen ......sehwag,tendulkar and laxman should perform decently what ever the pitch conditions are if any one of the other three(Gambir,yuvraj & out of form dravid) can match them i think we should win it by 1 test and if 2 can come to party we will be comfortable winners
 

adharcric

International Coach
In tests mate. There are atleast 5 FC bowlers in India who average less than 23. None of them, including Kumar can be considered test class. And none of them bowls above 125 kmph.
Praveen Kumar bowls around 130 kph and I'm quite confident in his chances of being test-class if he ever gets a call-up (if Sreesanth isn't ready, that could be very soon).
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
From reports and having seen him bowl, Praveen is highly ineffective with the old ball due to his lack of pace, height or ability to reverse swing the bowl. Such a problem may be critical in Test cricket.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Praveen Kumar bowls around 130 kph and I'm quite confident in his chances of being test-class if he ever gets a call-up (if Sreesanth isn't ready, that could be very soon).
I don't agree. Praveen Kumar can touch 130 kmph, but his stock speed is around 125 kmph in First class cricket. I watched him in the Ranji Finals and was baffled at his average despite having only that much pace. He might make a good ODI bowler, but at the moment, Sree is way better than him in tests.

And I think Balaji should get the nod ahead of Praveen based on current form.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah, he's had a real purple streak. But it hasn't been long enough that we can ignore all that went on before it- and also, like Ishant, he hasn't managed to take the amount of wickets that his bowling seems to deserve.



Yeah, maybe a touch (he had a much easier lineup to bowl to though). He bowled badly at Lord's though, in the rain-inflicted bail-out. Like i say, there really isn't a great deal to choose between them... let's see how they go in the Windies and NZ respectively.
Probably... I suppose I don't have any real hard reason for saying this but I do think right now, I would rather have Zaheer Khan in my side than Sidebottom.. And even at Lords, he did bowl well at times, but he was up against a Pieterson in full flow, which in effect, was better than any batsman Sidebottom had to face... EVen Sachin and Ganguly were showing more determination than fluency in that series as batsmen... Pieterson at Lords was a knotch above any other batsman at any other time during that series.. That has to be considered as well while rating Zak's performance...


But as you said, this season will give us a better idea. For now, juz best to agree to disagree I guess.. :)



And as PrinceEWS and Precamb have told, it has been a pleasure to read your posts in CC... Well done. :)
 

Athlai

Not Terrible
Nope. He is not rubbish when he thinks with his brain rather than his ass. Fortunately a slap or two can cure that as seen by his performances pre and post Bhajji slapotherapy in the IPL.

I have stopped taking alcohol, but perhaps we can enter into an avatar bet. Unfortunately, the term often is vague. I do expect him to clock 145+ more often than he did in the home series.

Can someone please clarify whether he bowled above 145 on a consistent basis in Australia?
No he was well below, he peaked in the low 140's throughout. Hence my belief he's not an express bowler, just a young pace bowler with more potential than destroying power at the moment.
 

adharcric

International Coach
I don't agree. Praveen Kumar can touch 130 kmph, but his stock speed is around 125 kmph in First class cricket. I watched him in the Ranji Finals and was baffled at his average despite having only that much pace. He might make a good ODI bowler, but at the moment, Sree is way better than him in tests.

And I think Balaji should get the nod ahead of Praveen based on current form.
Praveen has been around 130 kph in international cricket; I watched that Ranji final as well and I realize that he was slower back then. If you're so concerned with pace, Balaji shouldn't even be on the radar right now.
 

adharcric

International Coach
No he was well below, he peaked in the low 140's throughout. Hence my belief he's not an express bowler, just a young pace bowler with more potential than destroying power at the moment.
Certainly not express but with that bounce, movement and accuracy, batsmen sometimes appear to be beaten by pace. Ishant's usually around 140 kph, especially in the subcontinent; on better pitches, he cranks it up and can touch 150 kph.
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Certainly not express but with that bounce, movement and accuracy, batsmen sometimes appear to be beaten by pace. Ishant's around 140 kph in the subcontinent; on better pitches, he cranks it up and can touch 150 kph.
Haven't seen him bowl much in the past few months but he was never quite cranking those high speeds when I last saw him. Though him speeding up a bit lately wouldn't surprise me, I rate him very highly.
 

Uppercut

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Probably... I suppose I don't have any real hard reason for saying this but I do think right now, I would rather have Zaheer Khan in my side than Sidebottom..
Yeah, i would too, for form and fitness reasons. As bowlers I'd overall rank them more or less the same- both excellent.


And as PrinceEWS and Precamb have told, it has been a pleasure to read your posts in CC... Well done.
Thanks :)
 

Precambrian

Banned
Praveen has been around 130 kph in international cricket; I watched that Ranji final as well and I realize that he was slower back then. If you're so concerned with pace, Balaji shouldn't even be on the radar right now.
Balaji and P Kumar bowls the same speeds in the longer version. And Balaji has much better skills than Kumar. Hence given a choice between the two for test matches, I'd go for Balaji.

In ODIs, Kumar could get the nod considering he can crank it upto 130 kmph and is handy with the bat.
 

Uppercut

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Balaji and P Kumar bowls the same speeds in the longer version. And Balaji has much better skills than Kumar. Hence given a choice between the two for test matches, I'd go for Balaji.

In ODIs, Kumar could get the nod considering he can crank it upto 130 kmph and is handy with the bat.
You struggle to explain his incredible FC record though (he has a SR of 50, incidentally). 144 fluked wickets?
 

Precambrian

Banned
You struggle to explain his incredible FC record though (he has a SR of 50, incidentally). 144 fluked wickets?
It's kind of a paradox. Many bowlers before him have even more spectacular figures and yet have struggled to make an impact in International cricket. Examples include Debasis Mohanty and that great T20 death bowler Joginder Sharma
 

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It's kind of a paradox. Many bowlers before him have even more spectacular figures and yet have struggled to make an impact in International cricket. Examples include Debasis Mohanty and that great T20 death bowler Joginder Sharma
Joginder Sharma's never been given a test though. 150 balls bowled in ODI cricket are hardly enough to label him a failure. Nor is a bad over at the death in prank-cricket. Debassis Mohanty, too, only played two tests. Only the Wonder of the Modern World that is Amit Mishra could make an impact in that time.

Personally i think it's a myth that you need to bowl fast to be a success in international cricket. Chaminda Vaas, for example, is a better sub-continent bowler as India have ever had outside of Dev and he's even slower than Kumar now (and he was never exactly express). If you can get masses of wickets easily in Indian FC cricket, and can get them against the world's best batting lineup in ODIs, i don't think it's unreasonable to at least be given a shot at the tests.
 

Precambrian

Banned
Joginder Sharma's never been given a test though. 150 balls bowled in ODI cricket are hardly enough to label him a failure. Nor is a bad over at the death in prank-cricket. Debassis Mohanty, too, only played two tests. Only the Wonder of the Modern World that is Amit Mishra could make an impact in that time.

Personally i think it's a myth that you need to bowl fast to be a success in international cricket. Chaminda Vaas, for example, is a better sub-continent bowler as India have ever had outside of Dev and he's even slower than Kumar now (and he was never exactly express). If you can get masses of wickets easily in Indian FC cricket, and can get them against the world's best batting lineup in ODIs, i don't think it's unreasonable to at least be given a shot at the tests.
Personally I still believe Mohanty was picked before he peaked but there should be some reason for not picking him despite those extra-ordinary figures.

And as to Joginder, there is no doubt he would be a failure in test cricket as evidenced by the ease with which he was pummelled in the Internationals he played. And don't forget, his ODIs were against Bangladesh.

Chaminda Vaas is a different case. He started out as a quickish bowler bowling around 135 kmph, and was in test class on his own. As age crept up, he intelligently reduced his speed but added more variety and accuracy and adapted beautifully.
 

Uppercut

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Personally I still believe Mohanty was picked before he peaked but there should be some reason for not picking him despite those extra-ordinary figures.

And as to Joginder, there is no doubt he would be a failure in test cricket as evidenced by the ease with which he was pummelled in the Internationals he played. And don't forget, his ODIs were against Bangladesh.

Chaminda Vaas is a different case. He started out as a quickish bowler bowling around 135 kmph, and was in test class on his own. As age crept up, he intelligently reduced his speed but added more variety and accuracy and adapted beautifully.
In any case, I'd say Chaminda Vaas's case proves that a sub-continent bowler can indeed have success even if not bowling at great pace. The pitches are generally on the slowish side anyway so noone's going to be beaten by pace against anyone but the Taits and Akhtars of the game.

The other thing I would say is that Praveen Kumar is neither Mohanty nor Joginder, and should have the failures of neither of those players held against him. He's been excellent in ODIs for India, and depending on the disciplinary question, deserves a shot at the test side. For this series in particular, medium-fast swingers are a real threat in New Zealand.

You have to look at the competition too. Do Sreesanth, RP Singh or Munaf really make a convincing case for selection? They're all very hit-and-miss. It's not like I'm advocating he replace an established member of the side like Zaheer or Ishant. Whoever you pick will be a gamble, and I think Kumar has a better chance of success than the other options.
 

adharcric

International Coach
If you're comparing Praveen Kumar to Joginder, Mohanty or hell, even Balaji, I'm not sure what you've been watching.
 

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