***Official*** South Africa In Australia

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He's come a long way since then. He has shown that in domestic cricket. He certainly deserves a go ahead of Bollinger.

Performances just show how ridiculous it was not to take him to India - he may not have taken many wickets but Ponting would've killed to have someone with his control as it would have allowed the team the opportunity to build up some semblance of pressure

 

[aussie]

He's come a long way since then. He has shown that in domestic cricket. He certainly deserves a go ahead of Bollinger.

I don't think he has. No doubt has he been very good for NSW in the last few seasons. But i think its becoming fairly obvious that his FC bowling form is misleading.

Since everything he is seen in ODI colours, his success as i just said comes with him bowling cutters in the middle overs & his death bowling. That is the difference between Bracken of 05-09 in ODI's to Bracken 01-03 in ODI's.

Plus he never displayed the ability the swing the new-red ball the way he does with the white ball. So the reasons for him not being considered test match material is pretty clear for me.

 

[aussie]

Not sure about that though, Bollinger has been awesome with the ball in FC cricket for the last two seasons in the row and deserved his chance in the SCG test, but i entirely disagree with aussie, Bracken bowls cutters and mixes things up in ODI cricket, because that what good bowlers do in that format of the game, but to suggest he isn't capable of adapting his bowling to the longer format of the game is not true, his FC class record in recent times show that he's clearly as good as any other fast bowler in Australia atm.

And Hicks & Ramprakash's record in FC records continued to be brilliant even after dropped.

Bracken in his past test matches never displayed his same ability to swing the red-ball a great deal as he showed in ODI's or probably even FC cricket in AUS. I believe when he took that 7 for 4 it was the same season 05/06 season when he got his second chance in test cricket.

 

[Precambrian]

Not sure about that though, Bollinger has been awesome with the ball in FC cricket for the last two seasons in the row and deserved his chance in the SCG test, but i entirely disagree with aussie, Bracken bowls cutters and mixes things up in ODI cricket, because that what good bowlers do in that format of the game, but to suggest he isn't capable of adapting his bowling to the longer format of the game is not true, his FC class record in recent times show that he's clearly as good as any other fast bowler in Australia atm.

Bollinger had one terrific season. 2007-08 when he took 43 wickets @ 15 a piece.

Bracken has averaged less than 23 per wicket since 2004 season. (Except for 2006-07)

 

[Precambrian]

Performances just show how ridiculous it was not to take him to India - he may not have taken many wickets but Ponting would've killed to have someone with his control as it would have allowed the team the opportunity to build up some semblance of pressure

Fully agree with that. He'd been effective especially since it was winter and there was quite some help early on.

 

[aussie]

Performances just show how ridiculous it was not to take him to India - he may not have taken many wickets but Ponting would've killed to have someone with his control as it would have allowed the team the opportunity to build up some semblance of pressure

Yea, no doubt picking him in India to do what he has been doing in ODI's would have been a very astute tactical decision instead of picking a White especially if they didn't trust Krejza after McGain got injured. Its something probably Waugh or Taylor may have done TBH.

 

[Precambrian]

I don't think he has. No doubt has he been very good for NSW in the last few seasons. But i think its becoming fairly obvious that his FC bowling form is misleading.

Since everything he is seen in ODI colours, his success as i just said comes with him bowling cutters in the middle overs & his death bowling. That is the difference between Bracken of 05-09 in ODI's to Bracken 01-03 in ODI's.

Plus he never displayed the ability the swing the new-red ball the way he does with the white ball. So the reasons for him not being considered test match material is pretty clear for me.

I have not seen him bowling with the red ball for a long time as we don't get broadcast of Shield games here in India. However those records suggest he has got some ability to swing the ball. Otherwise how can he average in the 20s consistently?

And to say Bracken of now is the same bowler as Bracken of 04-05 is ridiculous. He has grown experienced since then with a lot of touring and stuff. I think he deserves a go in the whites, atleast be allowed to fail for once in test matches.

 

[Nate]

Bowling not suited to Test cricket. Most of success in ODI's since his recall in the super series in 05 has come from his ability to bowl off-cutters in the middle of the innnings & death bowling.

When he tries to be genuine swing bowler bowling @ 130-135 ks, he is pretty pedestrian as was shown in the 05/06 summer.

I don't think he has. No doubt has he been very good for NSW in the last few seasons. But i think its becoming fairly obvious that his FC bowling form is misleading.

Since everything he is seen in ODI colours, his success as i just said comes with him bowling cutters in the middle overs & his death bowling. That is the difference between Bracken of 05-09 in ODI's to Bracken 01-03 in ODI's.

Plus he never displayed the ability the swing the new-red ball the way he does with the white ball. So the reasons for him not being considered test match material is pretty clear for me.

And Hicks & Ramprakash's record in FC records continued to be brilliant even after dropped.

Bracken in his past test matches never displayed his same ability to swing the red-ball a great deal as he showed in ODI's or probably even FC cricket in AUS. I believe when he took that 7 for 4 it was the same season 05/06 season when he got his second chance in test cricket.

Firstly, aussie knows crap all about Australian Cricket, let's get that much clear.

First Post) O RLY? Up until that Super Series, Bracken was averaging 19.71 in ODI Cricket. As a genuine seam bowler without his cutters, he was off to a sensational start in his ODI Career.

Also, pedestrian in the 05/06 Summer? Match figures of 4/71 off 26 (including Lara and Chanderpaul) against the West Indies, also scoring 37 was pretty fantastic surely?

I guess you could be mentioning the drawn 1st Test against South Africa, widely received by critics as the flattest WACA deck they had ever seen, where Bracken took 2/83 off 31 overs, nailing Graeme Smith in both innings. The legendary McGrath took 1/98, if that is any indicator.

Or maybe you mean the VB Series where Bracken took the most wickets at the best average (17 @ 18.76) of all of Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka?

Second Post) See first post reply. Just a gigantic LOL. Random statements with no basis in fact. Actually, that entre post is made up of lies. For shame.

Third Post) Bracken swings the red cherry in FC Cricket a lot and often, not that you'd have a clue.

He also did it for Australia. Here's a sample of CricInfo Commentary from the aforementioned Australia vs West Indies Match.

43.1 Bracken to Samuels, no run, swinging into the legs, Samuels gets on
the pads
43.2 Bracken to Samuels, no run, good ball on the off stump, defended on
the front-foot to mid-off
43.3 Bracken to Samuels, no run, on the middle and leg stump, swinging
in, turned to short mid-wicket
43.4 Bracken to Samuels, no run, fuller length around the off stump,
Samuels almost caught in there, gets the inside edge to square leg
region
43.5 Bracken to Samuels, no run, Bracken going for the yorker and gets
it full, stroked back to the bowler
43.6 Bracken to Samuels, one run, fuller length and swinging down the
leg stump, Samuels flicks to fine leg

45.1 Bracken to Powell, no run, good length ball on the leg stump,
swinging in, Powell caught in the crease and ball strikes the pads
but the appeal turned down, bit high
45.2 Bracken to Powell, no run, pushed to mid-off
45.3 Bracken to Powell, OUT: Seven down! yorker on the middle stump,
swinging in, Powell plays all over it, gets on his right toe and
plumb in front

Also, Nathan Bracken has played just five Test Matches. Five. Mark Ramprakash played 52 Test Matches. Graeme Hick played 65. So what you're on about here I have no freaking clue.

I don't go into the Pakistani, West Indian, Sri Lankan, etc threads and sprout crap about who should be selected. So before you post next time aussie, either say something not entirely stupid, or jog off.

 

[Johnners]

Hahaha, best post, well said.

 

[Precambrian]

I don't go into the Pakistani threads and sprout crap about who should be selected. So before you post next time aussie, either say something not entirely stupid, or jog off.

Is there a message in it?

Good post.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

FWIW, I don't think Bracken would have a great deal of test success as a frontline seamer either. Not that I don't think he should have been given a shot over the years, because he definitely should have, but as it stands right now I'd be more interested in them taking someone like Hilfenhaus or Bollinger to SA and England than Bracken.

If Watson was in the team though I think there'd be a strong argument for considering Bracken as a containing/conditions specialist bowler instead of picking a spinner like Hauritz. Realistically he'd be just as adept at keeping the runs down and would certainly take more wickets, and I'd back him to bowl long spells if necessary and be very dangerous if the ball was swinging.

Not as a frontline quick ahead of the other options available right now though.

 

[aussie]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaa, i have a debate..

Firstly, aussie knows crap all about Australian Cricket, let's get that much clear.

First Post) O RLY? Up until that Super Series, Bracken was averaging 19.71 in ODI Cricket. As a genuine seam bowler without his cutters, he was off to a sensational start in his ODI Career.

Yes & why was he dropped again??. He was selected vs IND 03/04 after his superb bowling performace especifically in the TVS Cup in 03, and again the his ability to swing the new-ball was exposed. So whats your point??

Also, pedestrian in the 05/06 Summer? Match figures of 4/71 off 26 (including Lara and Chanderpaul) against the West Indies, also scoring 37 was pretty fantastic surely?.

Againts the mightly West Indies, whoaaaaaa. Yes he was pedestrian vs WI in 05/06 since after being recalled to the ODI side for the super series ODI's & again impressed with his ability to swing the white ball. That was lacking again..

I guess you could be mentioning the drawn 1st Test against South Africa, widely received by critics as the flattest WACA deck they had ever seen, where Bracken took 2/83 off 31 overs, nailing Graeme Smith in both innings. The legendary McGrath took 1/98, if that is any indicator.

No doubt that Perth test was flat. But has i just mentioned why was Bracken selected to the test side??. Simple, because the selectors reckoned he could be the next Allan Davidson or Bruce Reid based on what they saw of him with the white ball in ODI's & he didn't duplicate it, despite the fact that Perth was flat then. He never swung the ball significantly..

Or maybe you mean the VB Series where Bracken took the most wickets at the best average (17 @ 18.76) of all of Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka?.

Where have i argued that Bracken's ODI performances was ever an issue??. Stick to the point...

Second Post) See first post reply. Just a gigantic LOL. Random statements with no basis in fact. Actually, that entre post is made up of lies. For shame.

So you are saying that:

- Bracken has been garbage in FC cricket

- Their isn't a clear difference in the style of success displayed in Bracken's ODI performances between 2000/01-2003 & 2005/06-2008/09

- He has swung the red-ball in the 5 test he has played, just a effeciently as he has done in ODI's.

If that what you are saying sir???

Third Post) Bracken swings the red cherry in FC Cricket a lot and often, not that you'd have a clue.


Sample from CricInfo Commentary from the aforementioned Australia vs West Indies Match.

Learn to read. I never disputed that..

Nathan Bracken has played just five Test Matches. Five. Mark Ramprakash played 52 Test Matches. Graeme Hick played 65. So what you're on about here I have no freaking clue..

At least we agree on something..

I brought up the examples of Ramps & Hick to show, that although Bracken may still be doing well in FC cricket over the past few seasons. It does seem a bit misleading because:

- his performances in test cricket the last time he played, where he his ability to swing the red ball was lacking as he tried to bowl 130-135 ks

- how his success has come in ODI's since 2005/06. Mainly from bowling off-cutters in the middle overs & excellent death bowling @ a pace range of 120-125 ks..

I don't go into the Pakistani threads and sprout crap about who should be selected.

Haa, so you be following me around thread by thread n stuff thats so homo maynn. Plus
me going into the Pak vs Sri series thread to share my opinion on the upcoming series, simply shows my general interest in the the wonderful game of cricket. It may seem crap to you since you know nothing or have no interest in the aspects of those two teams..

So before you post next time aussie, either say something not entirely stupid, or jog off.

Only if you are going to assit me..

Good now that you have been humbled, i eagerly anticipate one of other buddies to step up now..

LOL after all these years you & your goonies still grudging, grow up fool..

 

[Burgey]

FWIW, I don't think Bracken would have a great deal of test success as a frontline seamer either. Not that I don't think he should have been given a shot over the years, because he definitely should have, but as it stands right now I'd be more interested in them taking someone like Hilfenhaus or Bollinger to SA and England than Bracken.

If Watson was in the team though I think there'd be a strong argument for considering Bracken as a containing/conditions specialist bowler instead of picking a spinner like Hauritz. Realistically he'd be just as adept at keeping the runs down and would certainly take more wickets, and I'd back him to bowl long spells if necessary and be very dangerous if the ball was swinging.

Not as a frontline quick ahead of the other options available right now though.

This, especially the 2nd par.

I think (and posted at the time) that Bracken would have been good value in India as a "holding"-type cutter bowler, especially given the state of the spin stocks.

 

[Smudge]

Haa, so you be following me around thread by thread n stuff thats so homo maynn.

Classy. Real classy.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Would find it more understandable, but obviously still not ideal. When of Symonds gets back, the only place in the team for him then should be as a short term opener imo, if that spot hasn't already been filled by say Warner or even M Hussey (not that I want Hussey up the order, but it looks like the selectors/Nielsen/Ponting see it as likely option).

I think putting Symonds against the new ball would be a bad idea.

 

[Johnners]

I think putting Symonds against the new ball would be a bad idea.

Haha, smart a***

 

[Nate]

No idea what the crap you're on about aussie, but will try to respond to the few tidbits I could read.

What you're saying is 'Bracken's FC form means nothing, he wouldn't be good at bowling in Tests and he doesn't swing the ball.' To which I responded with factual evidence. But I got nothing back.

This doesn't mean he'd neccessarily be a good Test Match bowler, but I presented evidence to my case and in response I got a lot of crap.

Lastly -

Third Post) Bracken swings the red cherry in FC Cricket a lot and often, not that you'd have a clue.

Sample from CricInfo Commentary from the aforementioned Australia vs West Indies Match.

Learn to read. I never disputed that..

I got from

Plus he never displayed the ability the swing the new-red ball the way he does with the white ball. So the reasons for him not being considered test match material is pretty clear for me.

and also

Bracken in his past test matches never displayed his same ability to swing the red-ball a great deal as he showed in ODI's or probably even FC cricket in AUS.

Which to me seems pretty clear cut.

Haa, so you be following me around thread by thread n stuff thats so homo maynn. Plus me going into the Pak vs Sri series thread to share my opinion on the upcoming series, simply shows my general interest in the the wonderful game of cricket. It may seem crap to you since you know nothing or have no interest in the aspects of those two teams..

I could walk you into the ground on cricket knowledge of national teams. My point is that youre making false, sweeping generalisations about something you clearly know nothing about yet again. And it's pathetic.

 

[Nate]

Againts the mightly West Indies, whoaaaaaa. Yes he was pedestrian vs WI in 05/06

And what the crap is this? 4/71 off 26 overs getting Lara and Chanderpaul is pedestrian? Dire.

 

[Flem274*]

Mustz hav fassssst bowlaz tho.

We get the same from a certain poster who has it in for Mills.

Bracks should be in contention, not sure he'll get in though.

 

[aussie]

No idea about the clear facts you have just presented aussie, but will try to respond to a few things since i'm now learning to read.

Corrected.

What you're saying is 'Bracken's FC form means nothing, he wouldn't be good at bowling in Tests and he doesn't swing the ball.'.

I never said that. All i said his FC form over the past few seasons has been misleading, given how he bowled in his last test appearnce in 2005/06. Plus he has never swung the red-ball significantly thats clear.

To which I responded with factual evidence. But I got nothing back.

Haa, you mean your evidence..

This doesn't mean he'd neccessarily be a good Test Match bowler, but I presented evidence to my case and in response I got a lot of crap.

Please quote the "lot of crap" i posted & state your reasons why you think i am incorrect. Since saying i have posted crap does not make your correct sir..

Lastly -


I got from

and also

Which to me seems pretty clear cut.

Really, i am worried about your reading ability sir, you said while directing me to a match:

Third Post) Bracken swings the red cherry in FC Cricket a lot and often, not that you'd have a clue.

Sample from CricInfo Commentary from the aforementioned Australia vs West Indies Match.

You are refering to Bracken swinging the red ball in FC cricket.

Plus he never displayed the ability the swing the new-red ball the way he does with the white ball. So the reasons for him not being considered test match material is pretty clear for me.

Bracken in his past test matches never displayed his same ability to swing the red-ball a great deal as he showed in ODI's or probably even FC cricket in AUS.[/quote]


In these post SIR. Not only have i acknowledged that Bracken has clearly been swinging the red ball in FC cricket over the past few seasons (and pretty much since he first got selected in 2000/01). But i have highlighted as i just mentioned that it is clear now that its a misleading indicator of how he might go in test cricket.

Given his test performaces in 2005/06 & how his recent success in ODI's between 2005/06 to 2009 (to date) have come i.e bowling cutters in the middle-overs & excellent death bowling

I could walk you into the ground on cricket knowledge of national teams. My point is that youre making false, sweeping generalisations about something you clearly know nothing about yet again. And it's pathetic.

Only one making false statements, completetly misunderstanding what i have said, plus clearly just using this Bracken argument to vent weird dislike you have developed towards me (a person over the net) is YOU.

I have not made no generalisations, just stated the obvious FACT the Bracken isn't up to test standard & was rightfully not considered for test matches vs NZ & SA nor should he be in consideration for tours to SA & ENG.