*Official* England in West Indies

[aussie]

Hmm, can't see how Freddie is better now, as he hasn't had much chance to show where he's at since his return, and certainly hasn't scored many runs

He hasn't?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

My memory immediately comes back to Antiguan & Bajan born players catching the eyes of many over here last summer in Robbie Joseph & Chris Jordan. Potentially massive losses no doubt.

They've not been lost to West Indies yet. But neither of them are anywhere near Edwards and Taylor in ability.

 

[GIMH]

He hasn't?

UIMM, he has only scored one Test 50 since returning from injury?

 

[wpdavid]

Hmm, can't see how Freddie is better now, as he hasn't had much chance to show where he's at since his return, and certainly hasn't scored many runs

His bowling is better, imo. And And I thought his batting in the WI five years ago was fairly dire, albeit flattered by his series average. He's a more intelligent test batsman now, if nothing else.

 

[GIMH]

He's a better bowler, definitely agree. Although he bats more intelligently, he tends to have scored less runs by the time he gets out than he did around 04, so IMO I'd take his batting from then.

 

[aussie]

They've not been lost to West Indies yet. But neither of them are anywhere near Edwards and Taylor in ability.

Not saying they are on Edwards & Taylor level. I'm saying given that the cupboard behind them is very bare. Not having Josepth & Jordan could be big losses.

Well Jordan probably not yet, but come son's in England now, seeing some top girls & better life in general than in Barbados (unless the cold winters irritate him), its a very strong possibilty that he might stay on base yo.

On Josepth, I think i saw the other day that the ECB called Joseph up into either the performace squad or the academy at loughborough (not 100% sure though). But the same cultue change might influence him to stay too.

 

[wpdavid]

He's a better bowler, definitely agree. Although he bats more intelligently, he tends to have scored less runs by the time he gets out than he did around 04, so IMO I'd take his batting from then.

I won't pretend I have strong feelings either way.

The biggest differences for us are that the bowling was much better in 2004 and the middle order (3 to 5) was tougher. I think those factors might cost us this time.

 

[aussie]

UIMM, he has only scored one Test 50 since returning from injury?

Its not all about what he's scored, but it how he has looked while batting. Since its clear his bowling is way above its 2004 level.

 

[GIMH]

Looking good at the crease won't win us test matches

 

[Richard]

From Michael Atherton in the Times:

How close is Adil Rashid to the first XI?
A lot closer than a lot of people suggest. I watched him in the nets in India and was very impressed. England have selected three spinners for the Tests against the West Indies and Rashid has a bright future, but he is probably ready for the side now.

That worries me rather. Whatever anyone might say, it's pretty plain to me that Adil Rashid is not a Test-class player right now.

On another note, worries me as always to see people suggesting picking Denly for ODIs. Classic case of both the classic selectorial mistakes in one: picking a player who has more promise than deliverence; and mixing-up the two game-forms (Denly to date is a good FC player and a poor OD one).

As for Davies, I've long had high hopes for him but I hope he doesn't become the next Geraint Jones and I also hope he doesn't become the next Vikram Solanki. Explanations on request, otherwise I won't bother.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well Jordan probably not yet, but come son's in England now, seeing some top girls & better life in general than in Barbados (unless the cold winters irritate him), its a very strong possibilty that he might stay on base yo.

Speaking as a Caribbean native, this is rather patronizing.

 

[Richard]

Not saying they are on Edwards & Taylor level. I'm saying given that the cupboard behind them is very bare. Not having Josepth & Jordan could be big losses.

Well Jordan probably not yet, but come son's in England now, seeing some top girls & better life in general than in Barbados (unless the cold winters irritate him), its a very strong possibilty that he might stay on base yo.

On Josepth, I think i saw the other day that the ECB called Joseph up into either the performace squad or the academy at loughborough (not 100% sure though). But the same cultue change might influence him to stay too.

I'm not sure exactly when Robbie Joseph moved to England but it's certainly a good few years ago. It's not impossible he grew-up here. He is 100% British in a cricketing sense, UIMM, and actually looked pretty decent last season and thus got the call into the performance squad.

Chris Jordan meanwhile will have to play a hell of a lot better than he did last year if he's to remain on Surrey's books. If he's not good enough to do that, one highly doubts he's any significant loss to West Indies.

at Camps's post as well. Not at him being patronised, but just at how he expresses it and the inevitability of aussie.

 

[superkingdave]

I'm not sure exactly when Robbie Joseph moved to England but it's certainly a good few years ago. It's not impossible he grew-up here. He is 100% British in a cricketing sense, UIMM, and actually looked pretty decent last season and thus got the call into the performance squad.

Chris Jordan meanwhile will have to play a hell of a lot better than he did last year if he's to remain on Surrey's books. If he's not good enough to do that, one highly doubts he's any significant loss to West Indies.

at Camps's post as well. Not at him being patronised, but just at how he expresses it and the inevitability of aussie.

I was expecting a Dernbach/Jordan opening partnership for England next year...

Anyway i think Joseph was about 15 when he came over, and given his cousin played for WI im sure he'd have played before he came over here.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, I thought roughly that. Same age as Paul Horton, IIRR, and both of them thus had their tertiary cricketing education at British schools, so thus are British cricketers.

 

[Scaly piscine]

No denying that Taylor and Edwards were **** to begin in a country that let them play when they weren't ready but both now are very good bowlers.

Past year bowling stats for England and WI

Out of English bowlers only Sidebottom averages better than Edwards, and only Anderson and Sidebottom average better than Taylor.

That's just a good patch and nothing more. NZ can't bat for toffee (who he got the bulk of his wickets against) and against Australia he had that one Test played on a dodgy pitch.

England played on a few pitches with sod all in them for seam bowlers last year.

Edwards has a long way to go before he elevates himself above most Test seamers out there.

 

[sammy2]

LOL.

THis series will be good, I don't know why anyone would assume England can have it easy against any team

But we will just have to wait and see.

I don't care about what anyone has to say about taylor or edwards, one thing is for sure, they will get wickets, and regularly too.

 

[Uppercut]

That worries me rather. Whatever anyone might say, it's pretty plain to me that Adil Rashid is not a Test-class player right now.
.

How much have you seen of him? My initial reaction was that he's probably being unnecessarily fast-tracked to the squad, not because i have much evidence but because that's normally what happens. But then Atherton is someone I have a lot of time for, so if he's actually watched him bowl and thinks he's quality i'd consider that too.

 

[aussie]

Speaking as a Caribbean native, this is rather patronizing.

Well if its makes you feel better, Trinidad girls vomits on England's..

 

[aussie]

How much have you seen of him? My initial reaction was that he's probably being unnecessarily fast-tracked to the squad, not because i have much evidence but because that's normally what happens. But then Atherton is someone I have a lot of time for, so if he's actually watched him bowl and thinks he's quality i'd consider that too.

Saw him bowl once in highlights package sometime in the summer on Sky, like what i saw TBH. He seemed to be getting better @ the back end of season also, remember him taking a 7 for somewhere.

Would love to take Atherton's word for it. But with Australia & a tour to SA coming up i personally don't want to see him near the test squad until next summer.

If son is good though why fast-tracking, especialy with Monty regresisng.

 

[Richard]

How much have you seen of him? My initial reaction was that he's probably being unnecessarily fast-tracked to the squad, not because i have much evidence but because that's normally what happens. But then Atherton is someone I have a lot of time for, so if he's actually watched him bowl and thinks he's quality i'd consider that too.

Watching someone bowl in the nets is notoriously unreliable, and probably more so for wristspinners than anyone. Atherton should know that; he admitted as much when he said in his book that to pick Salisbury ahead of Tufnell on net form in 1992/93 was "pure folly".

In matches, Rashid has thus far accomplished not-a-great-deal. Thus it's fairly safe to say he won't should he get into Tests. Until he actually accomplishes something really good in county cricket, I don't want him anywhere near the Test team and it's worrying, as it always is, when people think they know better than the game itself - because however important nets are for practice, they are not the game and it's quite easy to look good in the nets bowling\batting in a way that won't look (or be) anywhere near so good in the middle.