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Should Matthew Hayden retire?

Should Matthew Hayden retire?

  • Total voters
    109
H

Harry Harrison

Banned
Craig said:
I know he wants to go onto the 2009 Ashes, and cue him to fill his boots at the Adelaide Test against New Zealand, but should he quit while he is ahead and go out on his own terms then what is considered a form slump by his and anybodies standards and the list of people calling for his head get louder?

BTW no 3rd option as I want to know what people really think.
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When someone like Shaun Marsh is waiting on the bench and you are not performing, then its better for you to leave otherwise you would be made to do so.
 
susudear

susudear

Banned
Ikki said:
The point is he did so well against them and bad against the others that it props up his average. I would rather him average 47 across the board against every country than average 100 against one and 20-30 against the others.
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Except against SA, against whom he played a solitary test in 2005, that being a stand-in, he has performed reasonably against all test teams.

He averages 100+ vs Sri Lanka
Averages 40 odd against Windies
Averages 36 against India.

Given his relative inexperience, those are ok figures imho.

The main question is, whom you want in place of Jaques?
 
susudear

susudear

Banned
Ipl

Harry Harrison said:
When someone like Shaun Marsh is waiting on the bench and you are not performing, then its better for you to leave otherwise you would be made to do so.
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Marsh is a talent, no doubt. But to be a test opener, he needs to replicate atleast half of the success he had in the IPL in shield games.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
susudear said:
Except against SA, against whom he played a solitary test in 2005, that being a stand-in, he has performed reasonably against all test teams.

He averages 100+ vs Sri Lanka
Averages 40 odd against Windies
Averages 36 against India.

Given his relative inexperience, those are ok figures imho.

The main question is, whom you want in place of Jaques?
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Given his relative inexperience? Hello, that's my whole point...he has only done decently for someone relatively inexperienced...he is not a proven test match opener. I don't want anyone for Jaques, I am saying Jaques himself is no certainty either. For me, it's better to keep Hayden and Katich - and then Jaques should figure in later if Hayden's form dips even lower or retires.
 
susudear

susudear

Banned
Agree

Ikki said:
Given his relative inexperience? Hello, that's my whole point...he has only done decently for someone relatively inexperienced...he is not a proven test match opener. I don't want anyone for Jaques, I am saying Jaques himself is no certainty either. For me, it's better to keep Hayden and Katich - and then Jaques should figure in later if Hayden's form dips even lower or retires.
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Hayden deserves a fair run.
 
howardj

howardj

International Coach
susudear said:
Hayden deserves a fair run.
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Selection is about the team's interests, not that of an individual player. We've lost Border/Gavaskar and been belted in our backyard by SA, all the while Hayden has failed. So what exactly do you class as a fair run? Healy, Border and MWaugh were given far, far less leeway - and they were playing in winning teams.
 
susudear

susudear

Banned
howardj said:
Selection is about the team's interests, not that of an individual player. We've lost Border/Gavaskar and been belted in our backyard by SA, all the while Hayden has failed. So what exactly do you class as a fair run? Healy, Border and MWaugh were given far, far less leeway - and they were playing in winning teams.
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How long has Hayden been in bad form?

7 matches? Is that long enough to make a solid assessment of whether he is over?

And is Hayden the only perpetrator for all the Aussie defeats during his bad run? Why no-one is talking about Hussey who's averaging in the 27 odd in his last 7 test matches??

The point is that Hayden has been at the wrong end of atleast 3 bad decisions by the umpire, and some runouts.

At this point, replacing Hayden will be the greatest blow to an Aussie side trying to get over this bad run, because injury to Lee and Watson has meant it has debut atleast two guys at Sydney.

Add Johnson and Siddle to that mix and you have one of the most rookie Australian side in decades.

Such a side needs some semblance of stability especially in the batting ranks, and that means Hayden has to be retained.

I personally don't rate Hayden too much, but at this point in time, Hayden in the team has a lot of value than him outside it.
 
howardj

howardj

International Coach
The side has plenty of experience and stability in the batting ranks.

You only retain waning veterans if the team is still banging out victories.

You don't retain such players when the team is losing anyway.

You rebuild, move forward, be unsentimental and stop living in the past.

Anyway, over and out on this issue.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
FaaipDeOiad said:
The point is that people who have convinced themselves that Hayden is a flat track bully use his poor performances as evidence for their theory and treat good performances as an aberration. The article you praise as sharing your point of view would never have appeared if Hayden had scored the flawless 156 on a seaming minefield that you talk about in the last game, even though you say it wouldn't change your opinion. Articles like that appear because the guy is out of form, and point at his current poor performances as evidence of some sort of longer trend. Dravid on the other hand doesn't suffer from such opportunistic ****kicking.

Well actually, he probably does in India to some degree, I don't know. Not on this board anyway, and not from writers on cricinfo and so on. He's just out of touch, having mental issues, or past his best. None of which seek to paint his current poor performances as evidence that he was never really that good. That's exactly what is happening to Hayden right now, though.
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If it takes this for people to realise what I've viewed all along as the truth about Hayden, so be it, IMO. You're right that it'd not have happened had he been scoring for the last 4 months, but it didn't happen in 2004/05-2005 when it should've done. One up, one down.
 
zaremba

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
susudear said:
And is Hayden the only perpetrator for all the Aussie defeats during his bad run? Why no-one is talking about Hussey who's averaging in the 27 odd in his last 7 test matches??
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Because he's considerably younger than Hayden, this is his first form slump, he's a potential future captain and his form over recent years is such that he still averages nearly 60. So he's more or less undroppable.
 
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