*Official* English Football Season 2008-2009

[Scaly piscine]

I wonder if you've ever watched him play Scaly? His performances in the CL final in 05, the FA Cup Final in 06? Against Olympiakos for Liverpool when they were in the ****? Against Portsmouth in the FA Cup in 04, when the rest of his team (Salif Diao, El hadj Diouf, bruno Cheyrou) laboured?

I don't watch as much of Gerrard as some of those who swoon over him, but on club form he's the best English central midfielder by a good way. Sure, he hasn't reproduced that for England, and that's why there's such bad feeling towards him IMO. But he's not overrated, he is a player I would kill to see in my team.

I've seen him play plenty of times.

For Liverpool it's only his work-rate and long-range shots that stands out.

For England he's piss poor more often than not.

The bulk of his reputation is built on hype.

 

[Tom Halsey]

If we were playing Liverpool and Gerrard passed a late fitness test, I honestly wouldn't be that bothered, can't recall the last time he played well against us. Not that he's not a good player, but his big game reputation is largely undeserved IMO, on the basis of about four games. Compare this with the amount of games he's gone missing in against United alone, and it's not a good ratio. That's before factoring in games against the other big four clubs - I can't remember every big four game he's ever played but from what I can remember it's not as if he doesn't go missing in games against Arsenal and Chelsea either.

 

[GIMH]

I've seen him play plenty of times.

For Liverpool it's only his work-rate and long-range shots that stands out.

For England he's piss poor more often than not.

The bulk of his reputation is built on hype.

I really do disagree. Gerrard plays an absolutely killer ball, drives the midfield forwards and provides a great link-up with the attack, particularly when they have Torres playing. Additionally, his ability to play the long ball shouldn't be underestimated, in fact before Benitez was in charge of Liverpool he used to play as a deep-lying midfielder. He also is a fine leader for his club as he brings the best out in those around him.

He has never reached these heights with England though, not sure if I'd go as far as piss-poor but.

 

[grecian]

Have money on the draw and boro win, but just boottled it and put money on united as soon as I could make a profit on all three.

Hate hedging bets, feel dirty to be fair

 

[GIMH]

How much do you win for each?

United lead...

 

[grecian]

Oh it's peanuts, I only backed boro and the draw when i was drunk, so I caved in as soon as a tenner would give me a profit of any kind for man u.

1.80 on this match is the answer to your question

Still it isn't losing which is unusual for me.....

 

[Tom Halsey]

Winning today is all well and good (if we do indeed win, way we're playing it's no certainty) but we really do need to improve. Three goals in five before this, looking like four in five and three quarters now.

 

[aussie]

Downing definately needs to leave Boro, has really been missing today.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Apparently Lawrenson just came out with the he shoots, he scores, he eats your labradors chant on 5 Live, that might not go down well.

 

[GIMH]

oh dear!

 

[roseboy64]

Downing definately needs to leave Boro, has really been missing today.

Then that means he's at his right level no?

 

[aussie]

Then that means he's at his right level no?

Uhh, nah i aint get you here yo. Run that by me again mate.

BTW, where you at sting dawg. Kartel was the man..

 

[roseboy64]

If he wasn't good against a team at a higher level in Man Utd then he's not quality enough to play at a higher level. Someone like Ashley Young though played well against better opposition when he was at Watford and so isn't overwhelmed playing European football as he is now.

No wasn't at it but watched online. Yeah Kartel won that. Ninja Man killed him though.

 

[The Sean]

Winning today is all well and good (if we do indeed win, way we're playing it's no certainty) but we really do need to improve. Three goals in five before this, looking like four in five and three quarters now.

Indeed, the consistent dominant possession backed up by very few goals is becoming a worrying trend. Is Park the worst finisher ever?

That being said - it's seven consecutive clean sheets in the League now. And as they say, championship winning teams are built on a strong defence...

 

[aussie]

If he wasn't good against a team at a higher level in Man Utd then he's not quality enough to play at a higher level. Someone like Ashley Young though played well against better opposition when he was at Watford and so isn't overwhelmed playing European football as he is now.

Not really. For the past 2 seasons i have made a conscious effort to watch Middlesbrough & Botlon matches just to gauge an opinion on Downing & Taylor as to who really is the best

I have always reckoned before his performance for England vs Germany the other day that Downing was over-rated was nothing more than a club player & i really couldn't see what Sven, McClaren & the astute was seeing in him.

But in that England game with the lads playing some wonderful free-flowing football i saw a different side to Downing that i never see at Boro, in which he was looking very good in attack. At Boro in which they are very physical team that don't play with much fluency he doesn't get to do that, plus he is technically their star player & before Alves was bought at times he was played in the "hole" behind Tuncay which didn't help.

So i reckon if he goes to Tottenham as its being speculated its going to help son play better.

No wasn't at it but watched online. Yeah Kartel won that. Ninja Man killed him though.

Ninja man haha, someone needs to tell that old crock to shut up. Who cares what he thinks, its clear as day Kartel killed the barber, lol..

 

[Uppercut]

I wonder if you've ever watched him play Scaly? His performances in the CL final in 05

That match summed up perfectly his limitations too though and showed why he could never be a world-class CM in a 4-4-2. Benitez gave him a job to do as the holding midfielder in the first half and he failed spectacularly, letting Kaka run the show. It was only when Hamann came on as an extra midfielder that Gerrard started performing. IMO he's a very good supporting striker but he lacks the discipline to play as a box-to-box midfielder.

 

[aussie]

That match summed up perfectly his limitations too though and showed why he could never be a world-class CM in a 4-4-2. Benitez gave him a job to do as the holding midfielder in the first half and he failed spectacularly, letting Kaka run the show. It was only when Hamann came on as an extra midfielder that Gerrard started performing. IMO he's a very good supporting striker but he lacks the discipline to play as a box-to-box midfielder.

I cannot remember that first half instance in the 05 CL final that you speak of son.

But i totally disagree with the notions that Stevie G lacks the discipline to play as a box-to-box midfielder. Come before Capello, Stevie G was continiously asked to sacrifice his attacking him & play more defensively to allow Lampard to attack.

With Liverpool i remember many times before Torres came along he used to play in a 4-4-2 formation very effectively. Stevie G is easily the most versatile mid-fielder in Europe for me ATM. Followed by Ribery, Sneijder.

 

[Uppercut]

But i totally disagree with the notions that Stevie G lacks the discipline to play as a box-to-box midfielder. Come before Capello, Stevie G was continiously asked to sacrifice his attacking him & play more defensively to allow Lampard to attack.

Was Stevie G's great discipline one of the secrets behind England's pre-Capello success?

 

[GIMH]

As I mentioned earlier, Gerrard played in the deep-lying role for Liverpool pre-Benitez. Take a look at the rest of the players he had around him at the time, then look at them even managing to finish fourth. It shouldn't have happened and there was only one reason why it did. The 03-04 season was when Gerrard became accepted as world class, and he wasn't playing attacking midfield.

 

[Uppercut]

As I mentioned earlier, Gerrard played in the deep-lying role for Liverpool pre-Benitez. Take a look at the rest of the players he had around him at the time, then look at them even managing to finish fourth. It shouldn't have happened and there was only one reason why it did. The 03-04 season was when Gerrard became accepted as world class, and he wasn't playing attacking midfield.

Nah, i'm not sold on it, and i don't think Benitez is either. Rafa clearly thinks Gerrard is too good to leave out (quite rightly) but can't be picked in the middle of a four-man midfield for whatever reason (i'd say lack of discipline). He's found a solution finally with using him as support for Torres, giving him what is effectively a free role. But he's a bit too attack-minded to be world-class in the central midfield role. As style of play goes, he's currently quite similar to Tim Cahill (only better)- dogged, enthusiastic, great going forward, scores crucial goals and always gives 100% effort, but too attack-minded to play in the middle without protection.