"It's all White here" slogan angers West Indies

[silentstriker]

Well, I can see how it can look bad all on its own. I just assumed there was something cricket related seen along with these signs.

I still feel it's stupid. Racism will never go away if people over-react like this.

Haha, yes, racism will not go away if people point out racist slogans. Makes sense. You when racism won't go away? When people refuse to acknowledge something as offensive.

There is nothing wrong with it, but by some stage people are going to have to stop getting offended by such things.

Perhaps that stage should be when those slogans stop conjuring images of things people alive today have themselves lived through?

It was talked about in the media, it was a bit of catch phrase, and then on the day they won the 5th Test, a supporter ran onto the field with the banner, but that was not the first time it was ever heard of. It was mentioned in a lot of books after the series by WI players as well

Not aware of historic discrimination like this against white people:

You can't separate current events from their historical context. It wasn't even a generation ago that signs like these were posted in places around the world. Hate to be unpopular by pointing that out around here, but history matters and we haven't come far enough yet for you to ask people to simply forget about what they and their parents might have lived through. Sorry, we don't get that right.

"Hey mate, sorry about not letting you into college and denying you from public property when you were young. No hard feelings, all in the past, eh?" Yes, things have improved significantly, but it's still too close historically. Anyway, I think I've said my piece here.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Read my posts. I am saying there is a role to be had by more than one side in the matter.

This says what I want to say best:

The trouble is for those same people to continue to do so now in my view just perpetuates the idea of racism and is totally unhelpful - there are plenty of words that have fallen out of common usage (and indeed their use criminalised) but you can’t expunge words like black, white or coloured from any language so I do wish the bleeding hearts would stop trying.

I am in no way saying that "racism will not go away if people point out racist slogans".

 

[Goughy]

Not aware of historic discrimination like this against white people:

Worst post. Pulling bits and pieces from across time and different countries and lumping it all together under a 'white' umbrella.

Id write a long post detailing the history of global discrimination (of which White people play contributory but certainly nowhere near exclusive role) but it would fill many pages and frankly it isnt relevant to this thread.

As for the first sentence

and there are plenty more.

 

[Athlai]

Being White and being Irish aren't one and the same, my mother was a girl who was stoned at one point in her childhood for being Irish and living in Scotland. She refers to the Irish as the blacks of Europe sometimes.

 

[BoyBrumby]

The phrase is (obviously to me at least being a former Dunedin resident) a play on Dunedin's old marketing slogan which was "It's All Right Here", replaced with a ****ty "I Am Dunedin" slogan about 10 years ago.

I was joking there, in my defence. Or at least trying to.

Although Barrymore used to live in NZ I think, so maybe there was a grain of truth in it...

These sort of stories always frustrate me – thirty years ago when I was growing up racism was endemic in UK society and the fact that it no longer is after just one generation is a credit to those who started to stamp on these “ambiguous” comments in the 70’s.

The trouble is for those same people to continue to do so now in my view just perpetuates the idea of racism and is totally unhelpful - there are plenty of words that have fallen out of common usage (and indeed their use criminalised) but you can’t expunge words like black, white or coloured from any language so I do wish the bleeding hearts would stop trying.

Yeah, this, basically. This sort of brouhaha about what is essentially sweet Fanny Adams gives more ammunition to the anti-PC, Daily Mail reading, "I'm no racist, but..." brigade. "You can't even call it Christmas anymore...", etc, etc.

Crap slogan still tho, but.

 

[Jono]

Worst post. Pulling bits and pieces from across time and different countries and lumping it all together under a 'white' umbrella.

Id write a long post detailing the history of global discrimination (of which White people play contributory but certainly nowhere near exclusive role) but it would fill many pages and frankly it isnt relevant to this thread.

As for the first sentence

and there are plenty more.

And what's your point? I'm sure if there was a phrase which clearly offended Irish, then it'd be frowned upon too. However here it offended black people, and hence they're complaining.

Whether white people want to accept it or not, there was a time when "whites only" was a common phrase, and a "Its all white here" is so ****ing obviously loaded with connotations, it doesn't take a rocket scientists to realise that considering the disgusting history of white treatment of blacks, it shouldn't have been allowed.

 

[Jono]

Yeah, this, basically. This sort of brouhaha about what is essentially sweet Fanny Adams gives more ammunition to the anti-PC, Daily Mail reading, "I'm no racist, but..." brigade. "You can't even call it Christmas anymore...", etc, etc.

Crap slogan still tho, but.

I understand this, but if its potentially offensive, why should people not complain simply because it gives these wankers a right to go about their usual crap? These type of BNP member types are going to air these views regardless. The day we start catering to them is the day we've rewound 50 years.

 

[Precambrian]

Worst post. Pulling bits and pieces from across time and different countries and lumping it all together under a 'white' umbrella.

Id write a long post detailing the history of global discrimination (of which White people play contributory but certainly nowhere near exclusive role) but it would fill many pages and frankly it isnt relevant to this thread.

As for the first sentence

and there are plenty more.

Haha What a joke, countering the sword with a razor.

 

[wpdavid]

The apostrophe's the giveaway - presumably this establishment only served R. White's and no other type of lemonade.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I understand this, but if its potentially offensive, why should people not complain simply because it gives these wankers a right to go about their usual crap? These type of BNP member types are going to air these views regardless. The day we start catering to them is the day we've rewound 50 years.

I think potentially offensive is the key phrase here. There's a case to be made that any descriptive adjective that doubles as a noun is potentially offensive to someone. Where does one draw the line? Is being in a "black mood" offensive because it describes a person in a negative frame of mind using a word that doubles as a synonym for people of African origin?

I think there are very good cases for the prescribing of certain words (I'm happy to see the P-word censored on CW despite it apparently only being a slur in the UK and would be equally happy to see the three-letter word used to describe indigenous Australians similarly expunged, although it isn't a racial epiphet up here) but when neutral words like "white" are included I'd suggest it makes the argument look potentially ridiculous and makes what I'll broadly call "the left" (which I'd certainly include myself as a part of) look too po-faced; searching for offence where there is none.

 

[Precambrian]

The apostrophe's the giveaway - presumably this establishment only served R. White's and no other type of lemonade.

Good point.

Fact remains, the West Indians found it offensive. So respect their opinion instead of arguing why or whether they are entitled to find it offensive. Kudos to Otago for apologising immediately and shutting down things before they got Sydney.

 

[silentstriker]

Id write a long post detailing the history of global discrimination (of which White people play contributory but certainly nowhere near exclusive role) but it would fill many pages and frankly it isnt relevant to this thread.

Whoa nelly. Hold on there. When did I say white people had any sort of exclusivity on discriminating someone? My grandmother was a very high caste hindu. Their caste did plenty of discrimination, and still do. The high castes don't get to decide when and what the people who were (and are) the victims find offensive.

In this situation, the reference can clearly be made to the discrimination of black people in a white-majority area.

 

[silentstriker]

but when neutral words like "white" are included I'd suggest it makes the argument look potentially ridiculous and makes

Except, in this context, the word isn't neutral. No one is rallying against the word itself, only appealing against the context in which it is used this time, considering the similarities of phrases that were used to discriminate for a long time.

Jesus, no one is saying the word white by itself is bad.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Except, in this context, the word isn't neutral. No one is rallying against the word itself, only appealing against the context in which it is used this time, considering the similarities of phrases that were used to discriminate for a long time.

Jesus, no one is saying the word white by itself is bad.

That's my point about finding offense where there is none tho. It's All White Here is obviously a play on words (on the former Dunedin marketing slogan if Volty's to be believed). It's admittedly a rather ordinary play on words, but just a pun nevertheless.

As I said, where is the line drawn? Should the NZ soccer team look for a new nickname? Is Corrin's beloved White Army secretly a front for the Wirral branch of the KKK?

Bigger battles to fight for mine.

 

[wpdavid]

Good point.

Fact remains, the West Indians found it offensive. So respect their opinion instead of arguing why or whether they are entitled to find it offensive. Kudos to Otago for apologising immediately and shutting down things before they got Sydney.

Quite so. You'll get no argument from me on any of that.

 

[silentstriker]

That's my point about finding offense where there is none tho.

But you're (and me) not the one who would normally be offended by something like this. I'm not finding offense here. It's about others who might be, and simply respecting their wishes. Or dismissing them, whatever choice you want to make. I never said the offense was intended, in fact I said it wasn't. But you can't say there is no offense there when the slogan is all to reminiscent of something that was one of the most universal symbols of discrimination.

Bigger battles to fight for mine.

Sure, no one is saying this is like what's going on in Zimbabwe. And no one made a huge issue either, and boycotted anything. They simply let them know that it was offensive. It's not a huge fight, but I don't buy that its a non-issue.

 

[GIMH]

That's my point about finding offense where there is none tho. It's All White Here is obviously a play on words (on the former Dunedin marketing slogan if Volty's to be believed). It's admittedly a rather ordinary play on words, but just a pun nevertheless.

As I said, where is the line drawn? Should the NZ soccer team look for a new nickname? Is Corrin's beloved White Army secretly a front for the Wirral branch of the KKK?

Bigger battles to fight for mine.

Oh ****, they're on to me!

Nah, look, I agree with Brumby on this one. There is a risk that anyone could find anything at all offensive, but I think there needs to be a bit of common-sense.

 

[BoyBrumby]

But you're (and me) not the one who would normally be offended by something like this. I'm not finding offense here. It's about others who might be, and simply respecting their wishes. Or dismissing them, whatever choice you want to make. I never said the offense was intended, in fact I said it wasn't. But you can't say there is no offense there when the slogan is all to reminiscent of something that was one of the most universal symbols of discrimination.



Sure, no one is saying this is like what's going on in Zimbabwe. And no one made a huge issue either, and boycotted anything. They simply let them know that it was offensive. It's not a huge fight, but I don't buy that its a non-issue.

Fair enough, the slogan has been withdrawn as I understand it. It was clumsy perhaps and I'm not the ultimate arbiter of what folk are offended by, but I would've hoped in 2008 this should've been a non-issue.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh ****, they're on to me!

Nah, look, I agree with Brumby on this one. There is a risk that anyone could find anything at all offensive, but I think there needs to be a bit of common-sense.

TBH, that's just a cop out, when people just don't want to give a crap about what large amounts of people may think.

 

[GIMH]

It's not a cop out, and obviously you have to think about how people will perceive certain things. But there are plenty of things that get said which are deemed to be acceptable yet can cause offence to individuals. All I am trying to say is where do you draw the line?