*Official* Australia in decline thread

[grapedo]

It will definitley be south africa at the end of this summer.

 

[grapedo]

If South Africa can beat them I think you ment to say otherwise you are making very bold claims.

No I meant what I said. When south africa beat them. I have already proved they have a better bowling attack. Smith has improved alot as my good friend has been pointing out. Mackenzie also can play big innings and build partnerships. Lee will not challenge thme with pace anymore as he cannot bowl 150 km/h. Johnson will bowl to innacuratley so he will be hit to all parts. There is no Shane Warne or Glenn Mcgrath and the south african middle order is a hell of a lot stronger now then what it has been in previous series. So I have no doubt that if they can play their best cricket they will win. Also they drew 1-1 with india in india this year. So I think that says alot.

 

[Rant0r]

I have already proved they have a better bowling attack.

statistics mean nothing until they get on the park, see australia in the west indies 1995 for example, mgrath's coming out party.

australia still have an aura, SA still haven't crossed that frontier, i think they will win, but it won't be easy, i wouldn't be surprised to see australia lift or south africa to underperform again. perhaps because they are so desperate to beat the aussies is why they more often than not fail.

 

[Richard]

you will probably notice most australian players test records exceed their state records, so like an andy flower who was the world's number 1 batsman plays for SA and averages 26 (bearing in mind he was past his best) you can see why.

I don't believe this at all. No Australian batsman has a significantly better Test record than domestic record, bar Michael Hussey who's a complete freak and whose average everyone still thinks should come down, regardless of whether it happens.

The likes of Ponting, Stephen Waugh, Gilchrist, Border, Boon, Clarke, Taylor and Slater all had very, very similar Test and domestic-FC averages. The likes of Martyn and Langer both did better for state than country. Lehmann, Mark Waugh and Katich averaged significantly more in state than international cricket.

As for Andy Flower, he had 1 season in state cricket when he was getting on a bit. Pure coincidence and nothing more that his average for SA was so poor. Had he played in state cricket in 2001 or 2002 he'd have torn the thing up royally, because he was significantly better than any Australian batsman bar Stephen Waugh and Ponting (and possibly Hussey) of the last 18 years.

 

[Richard]

the south african middle order is a hell of a lot stronger now then what it has been in previous series.

No it isn't actually, it's quite a bit weaker than all the previous three series'. However, in each of 1996/97/98, 2001/02 and 2005/06, the SAfrican batting order underperformed horribly. This cannot keep on happening - sometime, they will have to do the job against Australia. Hopefully that will happen this summer.

 

[Rant0r]

I don't believe this at all. No Australian batsman has a significantly better Test record than domestic record, bar Michael Hussey who's a complete freak and whose average everyone still thinks should come down, regardless of whether it happens.

The likes of Ponting, Stephen Waugh, Gilchrist, Border, Boon, Clarke and Taylor all had very, very similar Test and domestic-FC averages. The likes of Martyn and Langer both did better for state than country. Lehmann, Mark Waugh and Katich averaged significantly more in state than international cricket.

As for Andy Flower, he had 1 season in state cricket when he was getting on a bit. Pure coincidence and nothing more that his average for SA was so poor. Had he played in state cricket in 2001 or 2002 he'd have torn the thing up royally, because he was significantly better than any Australian batsman bar Stephen Waugh and Ponting (and possibly Hussey) of the last 18 years.

prove it

 

[social]

I think in two years time South Africa, Sri Lanka, India and England will all be better teams than australia. Just due to the fact that they all are improving and have younger teams with alot more domestic player depth than what Australia do now.
Look at the australian bowling attack and their career test averages:
Lee 30.44
Johnson 34.87
Clark 22.89
So the three main seamers one of them averages under 30 then you see south africa's:
Steyn 22.51
Morkel 32.87 (vastly improving as it was 42 not long ago)
Ntini 28.22
So the three main south africans are alot better stats wise than the australians. This is what convinces me my prediction will come true.

You do realise that SA is a fast bowler's paradise, dont you?

In contrast, Oz, apart from the odd test, is a fast bowler's graveyard

 

[Richard]

prove it

Prove what? That Andy Flower was better than other Australian batsmen of the last 18 years? It's pretty obvious. Decent middling Test players like Michael Slater, Damien Martyn, Michael Clarke, Justin Langer, etc. aren't a patch on him.

Prove that Australian batsmen have done better in state cricket than Test? I don't need to, I'm not the one suggesting otherwise. The facts are there if you care to look them up.

 

[Richard]

You do realise that SA is a fast bowler's paradise, dont you?

In contrast, Oz, apart from the odd test, is a fast bowler's graveyard

To suggest that there haven't been more than a few bowler's-graveyard Tests in SA in recent years (as everywhere else) is ignorant.

 

[sanga1337]

prove it

Mark Waugh: 41.81 tests, 52.04 first class
Simon Katich: 41.02 tests, 54.37 first class
Darren Lehmann: 44.95 tests, 57.83 first class

Katich's test average will be a few runs higher considering he just scored an unbeaten century, but as you can see above those 3 players averaged at least 10 runs more in first class cricket then they did in test cricket, which is a lot.

 

[Rant0r]

Prove what? That Andy Flower was better than other Australian batsmen of the last 18 years? It's pretty obvious. Decent middling Test players like Michael Slater, Damien Martyn, Michael Clarke, Justin Langer, etc. aren't a patch on him.

Prove that Australian batsmen have done better in state cricket than Test? I don't need to, I'm not the one suggesting otherwise. The facts are there if you care to look them up.

you first

 

[jondavluc]

No I meant what I said. When south africa beat them. I have already proved they have a better bowling attack. Smith has improved alot as my good friend has been pointing out. Mackenzie also can play big innings and build partnerships. Lee will not challenge thme with pace anymore as he cannot bowl 150 km/h. Johnson will bowl to innacuratley so he will be hit to all parts. There is no Shane Warne or Glenn Mcgrath and the south african middle order is a hell of a lot stronger now then what it has been in previous series. So I have no doubt that if they can play their best cricket they will win. Also they drew 1-1 with india in india this year. So I think that says alot.

Its still a bold claim and needs to show proof on the field rather then bull**** stats and you saying they will doesn't make them winners yes they are looking the batter team at the moment but really besides india haven't played against any real teams(yes we lost to india but one series doesn't mean **** really).Also steyn hasn't to me shown he can beat up strong oppositions with his bowling and morkel can't seem to hold down his runs.So that leaves Ntini who has being down on his game of late.

 

[social]

To suggest that there haven't been more than a few bowler's-graveyard Tests in SA in recent years (as everywhere else) is ignorant.

Almost as ignorant as suggesting that SA is not generally the best place in the world to bowl pace

 

[Precambrian]

Almost as ignorant as suggesting that SA is not generally the best place in the world to bowl pace

Bangladesh. Anything over 130 will do, provided in line or just outside the stumps.

Oh yeah, being a Non-Bangladeshi is essential.

 

[Richard]

Almost as ignorant as suggesting that SA is not generally the best place in the world to bowl pace

There's not been a lot in the way of good places to bowl seam in the last 7 years. England, SA and NZ have all had their moments, but these have come nowhere near as often as you'd expect them to under "normal" (ie, almost all of the 100 years before the last 7) circumstances.

 

[teddy23]

This is a busy little thread aint it.

Lots of jealous petty people in this forum.

We are in decline but still have enough to take care of the mentally scared Seth Africans.

 

[Uppercut]

This is a busy little thread aint it.

Lots of jealous petty people in this forum.

We are in decline but still have enough to take care of the mentally scared Seth Africans.

Dale Steyn, absolutely terrified

 

[grapedo]

Its still a bold claim and needs to show proof on the field rather then bull**** stats and you saying they will doesn't make them winners yes they are looking the batter team at the moment but really besides india haven't played against any real teams(yes we lost to india but one series doesn't mean **** really).Also steyn hasn't to me shown he can beat up strong oppositions with his bowling and morkel can't seem to hold down his runs.So that leaves Ntini who has being down on his game of late.

Well they are undefeated in their last six series. We can't really play anyone else as we have beaten evryone apart from australia becuase we haven't played them. And when south africa played nz we weren't rolled over for 214 on any occasion and as many people say south africa is the best place for pace bowling. Also when we played the west indies we weren't pushed all the way for three tests. Steyn was the best bowler in India so that shows he can dismiss quality batsman. Morkel isn't looking too good at the moment but if he can bowl to potential you will be eating humble pie my dear friend.

 

[grapedo]

So you don;t count england, pakistan and sri lanka as real teams. Hmmm you could make a few enemies saying that

 

[jondavluc]

Well they are undefeated in their last six series. We can't really play anyone else as we have beaten evryone apart from australia becuase we haven't played them. And when south africa played nz we weren't rolled over for 214 on any occasion and as many people say south africa is the best place for pace bowling. Also when we played the west indies we weren't pushed all the way for three tests. Steyn was the best bowler in India so that shows he can dismiss quality batsman. Morkel isn't looking too good at the moment but if he can bowl to you will be eating humble pie my dear friend.

So you don;t count england, pakistan and sri lanka as real teams. Hmmm you could make a few enemies saying that

by "potential" you mean when he can land something near the stumps lets face it he will be the next harmi .bowls a some good spells then bowls crap every other time.Also steyn only got one five for aginst india which four of those were were the tail so no great feet.He also got a four for but also again most were tail enders.South afriac I don't recall them playing aginst sri lanka recently and I think are a much bigger enemy and england well aren't that great.Pakistan has lost alot and had mohemmed out of fourm during that recent series also don't get as much cricket I think they have good players but they haven't enough cricket to get them going.Really pakistan is no way near south africa good.