Ricky Ponting should be sacked

[vic_orthdox]

The reasoning was a considerable amount of guesswork. Simple as.

Obviously you're always guessing to some degree when you pick a player. However, a player who's proven himself over 2 seasons involves less guesswork than one who's had a good half a season.

Therefore, good selection would be to pick the player who'd proven himself over 2 seasons. Not the one who's barely out of first-grade.

Or was it having watched him bowl only weeks earlier on an Australia A tour to India, where he was by all reports the most impressive pace bowler of the tour?

 

[Flem274*]

Please drop Punter for the NZ series. He is obviously disgraceful and should be punished by missing the two tests.

Also, with all his hard work lately, Brett Lee needs a rest. Rest him for the series.

Also, Aus need to develop a new spinner. I can think of no one better for the job than Cameron White.

I suggest Peter Siddle and Mitch Johnson open the bowling, with Watson as third seamer and Mick Lewis also given another chance. White will of course be the spinner.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Mick Lewis has retired.

 

[Flem274*]

Mick Lewis has retired.

Got any other rare Aus bowlers handy that NZ can do well against?

 

[Johnners]

Please drop Punter for the NZ series. He is obviously disgraceful and should be punished by missing the two tests.

Also, with all his hard work lately, Brett Lee needs a rest. Rest him for the series.

Also, Aus need to develop a new spinner. I can think of no one better for the job than Cameron White.

I suggest Peter Siddle and Mitch Johnson open the bowling, with Watson as third seamer and Mick Lewis also given another chance. White will of course be the spinner.

Watson & Johnson would carve up.

 

[pasag]

Lewis would run through the NZ batsmen tbh, might have some trouble with Vettori though

 

[Flem274*]

Watson & Johnson would carve up.

Sadly you are probably right

Lewis would run through the NZ batsmen tbh, might have some trouble with Vettori though

Because he did so well last time.

On the topic, can't see much point in dropping Ponting because A) are his possible replacements likely to do better and B) he's been pretty good for a while, think the Aussies selectors should show some faith.

 

[Matt79]

That doesn't neccessarily mean there cannot be exceptions to this rule though.

If you believe Hussey or Clarke could do a better job, you should remove the captaincy from Ponting and give it to them. If you don't (and I don't really see any reason for anyone to believe they would) then you leave it with Ponting.

Only change your captain if you believe it will make the side better to do so.

My last few posts have been about the selection of Siddle.

And I'm certainly not strongly defending Ponting, merely pointing-out that things aren't as simple as some are suggesting.

If Ponting steps down after this series - not that I particularly think he will - then that trend will be bucked.

No-one is about to drop Ricky Ponting in 2008.

Yeah, i can see them letting that rule slide though. He can't be dropped, but his captaincy has really obviously gone stale and with what's being written about him he's got to be feeling it, especially if they don't make the run chase tomorrow. The decision has to be made now whether they want him as captain for the Ashes or not, and i find it hard to see him staying that long.

Stripping him of the captaincy would be tantamount to dropping him - can you see a man with Ponting's pride and temperament, and wealth, sticking around after being told he's surplus to requirements, when the last time such a step was taken with an Australian captain was before he was born? He'd never voluntarily relinquish it, and would be staggered if he was prepared to be in the team as a sacked captain.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced he's going to step down after this series.

Without being rude, you're delusional . Apart from anything else his legacy as a captain is on the line. He is enormously proud of being the Australian captain, and is hugely respected within Australia for the job he's done, however he's also no doubt aware that the one knock that can be placed on his record is that it has been achieved on the back of Warne and McGrath (and Hayden and Langer and himself as a batsman), rather than one his ability as a captain. If he stands down after one hard series following their retirement, he loses a massive amount of credibility and respect and his legacy is tarnished. And that does mean a lot to him. You mustn't underestimate the cultural norm that has developed in Australian cricket that the captain is the captain is the captain, until he's out of the team, and that ex-captains don't stay in the team.

The day that Ponting relinquishes the captaincy while still being an automatic inclusion for his batting will never come in a million years.

 

[Goughy]

Stripping him of the captaincy would be tantamount to dropping him - can you see a man with Ponting's pride and temperament, and wealth, sticking around after being told he's surplus to requirements, when the last time such a step was taken with an Australian captain was before he was born? He'd never voluntarily relinquish it, and would be staggered if he was prepared to be in the team as a sacked captain.

Wow, the Aussie really are going soft. Massaging Pontings ego comes ahead of what is potentially best for the team?

If he lost the captaincy and had issues with playing purely as a batsman then he is the biggest douche on the planet.

Its team sport at the highest international level. There is no place for that attitude.

 

[social]

They sacked Symonds for missing a meeting so what should the penalty be for giving away a winning position and potentially the series?

 

[Precambrian]

They sacked Symonds for missing a meeting so what should the penalty be for giving away a winning position and potentially the series?

Cause in Symonds they saw a soft target?

Frankly, Ponting's tactics yest should not go unpunished.

 

[Richard]

Or was it having watched him bowl only weeks earlier on an Australia A tour to India, where he was by all reports the most impressive pace bowler of the tour?

Possibly so.

If so, as I say - guesswork of a considerable extent. Far less reliable than 2 whole seasons' worth of performance.

Wasn't there about 3\4 of a match's worth of play in that A series?

 

[Richard]

Stripping him of the captaincy would be tantamount to dropping him - can you see a man with Ponting's pride and temperament, and wealth, sticking around after being told he's surplus to requirements, when the last time such a step was taken with an Australian captain was before he was born? He'd never voluntarily relinquish it, and would be staggered if he was prepared to be in the team as a sacked captain.

TBH, I'd be staggered if he retired (unforced by injury) from international cricket at the age of 33.

The days of players of much note doing that are looooooooooooong gone.

BTW, who was the last Australian to play a Test as ex-captain?

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Did Lawry do it?

 

[Richard]

They sacked Symonds for missing a meeting so what should the penalty be for giving away a winning position and potentially the series?

They didn't sack him, they dropped him for a series.

Big difference between being dropped for a series and being sacked as captain.

 

[Richard]

Did Lawry do it?

Pretty sure he didn't, thought he was actually dropped (possibly of his own volition? Or maybe I'm blurring his and Mike Denness' on the next tour's cases together) mid-series with Ian Chappell taking over?

 

[chaminda_00]

Possibly so.

If so, as I say - guesswork of a considerable extent. Far less reliable than 2 whole seasons' worth of performance.

Wasn't there about 3\4 of a match's worth of play in that A series?

Both Bollinger and Noffke struggled in Pakistan as well last season. There is massive difference between being an effective seamer in India and an effective seamer in Australia.

Don't see what difference two better seasons in Australian pitches means, if you shown that your no where near as effective on Indian pitches. Especially if someone else showed they can be effective.

It about making to most of your chances in similar conditions, Siddle did, Noffke and Bollinger didn't

 

[Matt79]

Wow, the Aussie really are going soft. Massaging Pontings ego comes ahead of what is potentially best for the team?

If he lost the captaincy and had issues with playing purely as a batsman then he is the biggest douche on the planet.

Its team sport at the highest international level. There is no place for that attitude.

Having Ponting in the team, focused and performing, is indisputably a better thing for the team than having him retire or else in the team but disenchanted and distracted. I'd say, given the culture in the team, he'd either go when stripped of the captaincy or soon afterwards. If he approached the selectors and said he wanted to step down, that would be a different kettle of fish, but he won't do that, the selectors would have to fire him. I repeat, no Australian captain has been sacked in his lifetime, so he'd feel extremely scape-goated and victimised if it were to occur for this. Especially as Clarke as VC appeared to have gone along, and Nielson seems to have been in agreement with his actions, or was aware of his intentions and didn't try to dissuade him.

They sacked Symonds for missing a meeting so what should the penalty be for giving away a winning position and potentially the series?

They sacked Symonds for disrespecting the team ethos and acting unprofessionally, and for that event being the last in a string of similar incidents. Ponting hasn't had a string of these incidents, although he's been poor in this series as a captain IMO, and it was a decision made with the compliance of the team and seemingly the coach. There wasn't any dissent that we're aware of from the team yesterday.

 

[pasag]

Lawry was dropped as player and captain and didn't come back.

 

[Matt79]

TBH, I'd be staggered if he retired (unforced by injury) from international cricket at the age of 33.

The days of players of much note doing that are looooooooooooong gone.

BTW, who was the last Australian to play a Test as ex-captain?

He could very easily make himself available for a full season of IPL and have more money than if he remained in the Australian team.

The days of high profile players grimly hanging onto their spot in their national team, if there's a better deal available in IPL or ICL are very likely to be gone soon. We're already seeing that.