Ricky Ponting should be sacked

[silentstriker]

Gangulys ban was for 6 matches yeah? If so, a potential 6 match ban makes it more of a hairy topic than 1 or 2.

All will be revealed I guess.

Well 4 OD ban is pretty much 1-2 Test matches. I doubt it would have been two - it probably would have been one at worst, or a match fine.

 

[Richard]

Did he do badly when picked? Did his form this season provide evidence for selectors to consider he might do well?

The selectors are meant to select based on who they think will do well, not on who's got seniority - this isn't the old public service. They had a theory he'd do better than the alternatives and he did ok. Where's the beef?

That that theory was based on unsound reasoning.

There's no good reason to suspect someone who's played half a season is going to do better than someone who's done well for 2 seasons. Any selector who does this has done his job poorly.

 

[Swervy]

That that theory was based on unsound reasoning.

There's no good reason to suspect someone who's played half a season is going to do better than someone who's done well for 2 seasons. Any selector who does this has done his job poorly.

but you don't know really what the reasoning was...or do you?

 

[Richard]

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the decision, the reality is that Ponting is not going to be sacked as captain. Australia doesn't sack captains, and especially not if they can say that they were acting in accordance with a plan agreed with the coach to satisfy the stipulations of the match referee. In the Aussie context, dropping Ponting as captain means dropping him from the team full stop. We have no history in the last few generations of players of having former (substantive) captains in the team - or of captains going before the time of their choosing.

That doesn't neccessarily mean there cannot be exceptions to this rule though.

If you believe Hussey or Clarke could do a better job, you should remove the captaincy from Ponting and give it to them. If you don't (and I don't really see any reason for anyone to believe they would) then you leave it with Ponting.

Only change your captain if you believe it will make the side better to do so.

 

[Richard]

but you don't know really what the reasoning was...or do you?

The reasoning was a considerable amount of guesswork. Simple as.

Obviously you're always guessing to some degree when you pick a player. However, a player who's proven himself over 2 seasons involves less guesswork than one who's had a good half a season.

Therefore, good selection would be to pick the player who'd proven himself over 2 seasons. Not the one who's barely out of first-grade.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I find it hard to believe you're strongly defending Ponting here.

Sometimes it's just like you disagree with the general consensus to feed your ego.

 

[quick4mindia]

(a monkey could have captained those two and got good results)

Were you referring to someone in particular?

 

[Richard]

I find it hard to believe you're strongly defending Ponting here.

Sometimes it's just like you disagree with the general consensus to feed your ego.

My last few posts have been about the selection of Siddle.

And I'm certainly not strongly defending Ponting, merely pointing-out that things aren't as simple as some are suggesting.

 

[Swervy]

And I'm certainly not strongly defending Ponting, merely pointing-out that things aren't as simple as some are suggesting.

You are right, I am sure there is something else going on here...however if not, its a very poor do. Ponting and co. should not be thinking ahead to the NZ series whilst they are still battling to save the series in India. If it just comes down to that, and that alone, someone should be held accountable

 

[aussie]

Feel to sleep in the final session when Clarke bowled White when the commentators where speaking that Australia where behind the over-rate, & i'm very surprised to hear this is what Ponting had done.

But to sack him wouldn't make much of a difference because no other player in the side has any great tactical ability as a skipper, that could probably get the best of the bowlers in this post McGrath/Warne era.

Australia will just have to live with Ponting as skipper until he retires TBH, unless series defeats to SA & ENG occur in the next 12 months.

But if anyone in Australia should be sacked it should be the selectors, because i believe the dropping of Clark in this final test was more their decision than Ponting's.

 

[Goughy]

Well reading what coach Tim Nielsen had to say, it appears there were 2 reasons for the use of part-timers .

1) To avoid Ponting getting a suspension

2) They had an obligation to bowl the required overs

So basically 1 is a bull**** reason and I dont believe 2 for a second. If it turns out that 2 is true then they should get a sportsmanship medal and everyone else should rejoice as the Aussies have gone soft.

 

[four_or_six]

Well reading what coach Tim Nielsen had to say, it appears there were 2 reasons for the use of part-timers .

1) To avoid Ponting getting a suspension

2) They had an obligation to bowl the required overs

So basically 1 is a bull**** reason and I dont believe 2 for a second. If it turns out that 2 is true then they should get a sportsmanship medal and everyone else should rejoice as the Aussies have gone soft.

Last time Aussies got all pre-occupied with their image... summer 2005.

 

[Swervy]

Well reading what coach Tim Nielsen had to say, it appears there were 2 reasons for the use of part-timers .

1) To avoid Ponting getting a suspension

2) They had an obligation to bowl the required overs

So basically 1 is a bull**** reason and I dont believe 2 for a second. If it turns out that 2 is true then they should get a sportsmanship medal and everyone else should rejoice as the Aussies have gone soft.

for even trying to justify it like this, Neilsen should be fired. What a bull**** statement from him.

 

[Richard]

Last time Aussies got all pre-occupied with their image... summer 2005.

TBF, it was more the period between 2003/04 and 2005/06. The McGrath-Sarwan incident at The ARG was the catalyst and the 2005 loss the catalyst in the other direction.

 

[nightprowler10]

Just read what Ponting did. Must say if CA don't act on this and shove it under the rug, it would very much be a PCB-ish thing to do.

 

[social]

for even trying to justify it like this, Neilsen should be fired. What a bull**** statement from him.

If he isnt sacked for incompetence after this tour, Nielsen should be banned from speaking to the media as he stuffs things up everytime that he does

And for once I agree with Roebuck

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/cricket/what-on-earth-was-he-thinking/2008/11/09/1226165386817.html

 

[BoyBrumby]

One of the more bizarre passages of play I've witnessed. I'd call it wrong-headed if I were feeling charitable. Hard to justify on any level.

Only saw the highlights, but Nicholas mentioned at one stage early after the post-tea resumption that Clarke was captaining the team because Ponting wasn't on the field. White was bowling the first over of his tragi-comically bad spell, so one must assume some sort of collective decision initially? Obviously Ponting was back on when Hussey's little seamers were preferred to Watson or Lee after tho.

 

[NZTailender]

**** Michael Clarke. Give the (c) to the Katman!

It'd be so awesome if Katich was given the captaincy. Would be one of the greatest moments in Australian cricket history.

AWTA

Nah I'm actually pretty unbiased really.

I don't think Katich shows any signs of leadership at International level and he's really only just gotten himself a certain position in the XI.

I'm liking that he's been doing well lately, but yeah for mine he's not captaincy material.

Basically what PEWS said:

He may not be outgoingly confident bordering on arrogant like most modern captains but, contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be to be a good captain. Katich is an excellent tactician and was actually tipped for Australian captaincy at a very young age. In fact, it's believed in some quarters that his reputation as a "FAC" partly contributed to his random dumpings from the team when Ponting was establishing himself as captain.

I guess it depends what you want from your captain - a natural leader or a natural cricket tactitcian. Ideally you'd have both but obviously that's not always possible. Katich may not strike you as the natural leader type but he definitely has more cricketing naus than someone like Ponting and he copes very well in pressure situations too - that's all I want from a captain. The senior players can always aid in motivating a team but the captain is the one who has the ultimate decision on tactics so it's vitually important to have someone tactically sound.

The only thing that would stop me giving Katich captaincy is the fact that he hasn't really cemented his spot in the team yet. His credentials as captain stack up better than anyone in the country for mine, barring possibly White who shouldn't be captain for very obvious reasons..

On the topic of the thread, I'll reserve my judgment until after we know more about the decision. If Ponting hasn't acted alone in making it then I'd probably spare him. If it was his decision and the decision was indeed based on over-rates then he should be sacked.

Indeed.
If you can follow sojme (flawed) logic:
Australia = number 1 team
Australian Domestic Cricket = toughest in the world
Sheffield/Pura Cups won by Ponting: 0
Won by Clarke: 0
Won by Hussey: 0
Won by Katich: 1

Therefore, best Captain in Australia

That's a fair issue - you only sack your captain if you think someone else can do better.

Of those established in the side, does anyone honestly think Hussey or Clarke could?

Nope, don't think they can. Katich is the man

 

[Uppercut]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced he's going to step down after this series.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced he's going to step down after this series.

Dunno. Whatever his limitations as a captain he's still a batsman of the very first water and, as others have observed, Australia really don't retain ex-captains in their teams.