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This Krejza kid

tooextracool

International Coach
Funny how often it resembles it actually, but no, being gifted 5 end-of-innings wickets, while obviously better than not having them at all, doesn't deserve any great credit.
Richard did you watch the game? or are you just making assumptions based from the scorecard?
The Indian batsmen went after him from the moment he came on to bowl. I mean its rather ignorant to suggest that he was gifted these wickets because the last 5 batsman just suddenly decided to go for quick runs when that was the strategy that was employed against him and was employed for all of those 215 runs that were scored against him.

EDIT: Also how many of the wickets that he took from from out and out attacking strokes? Ganguly and Mishra played defensive strokes, while Ishant tride to turn one around the corner.I fail to be convinced that Dhoni or Zaheer would have played a different stroke in any other circumstance either.
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Richard did you watch the game? or are you just making assumptions based from the scorecard?
I haven't watched all this Test, no.
The Indian batsmen went after him from the moment he came on to bowl. I mean its rather ignorant to suggest that he was gifted these wickets because the last 5 batsman just suddenly decided to go for quick runs when that was the strategy that was employed against him and was employed for all of those 215 runs that were scored against him.

EDIT: Also how many of the wickets that he took from from out and out attacking strokes? Ganguly and Mishra played defensive strokes, while Ishant tride to turn one around the corner.I fail to be convinced that Dhoni or Zaheer would have played a different stroke in any other circumstance either.
The point is more about lower-order wickets of lesser-calibre batsmen than the quick runs - but nonetheless the fact that India were already in a position of strength by the time the wickets fell does mean they're of far less value than otherwise. One is reminded of Darren Sammy's spell at Old Trafford 2 summers ago - decent bowling though it was, it came at a time when England were merely looking to make a near-impregnable position impregnable.

I realise fully that India attacked him all spell - and mostly this tactic was successful, that's the point. Only briefly, after a hell of a pasting for a long time, did Krejza do anything particularly good.

Had there been a bit of rain resulting in India declaring on 400 for 5 ish, we'd not be having this discussion. The point is that for most of the innings Krejza was woeful then one short blast at the end made woeful look quite good.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
The point is more about lower-order wickets of lesser-calibre batsmen than the quick runs - but nonetheless the fact that India were already in a position of strength by the time the wickets fell does mean they're of far less value than otherwise. One is reminded of Darren Sammy's spell at Old Trafford 2 summers ago - decent bowling though it was, it came at a time when England were merely looking to make a near-impregnable position impregnable.
The Sammy analogy is only marginally relevant to this situation. It is true that Krejza probably didnt bowl well enough to deserve 8 wickets much the same way that Sammy took 7 wickets, but it was blatantly obvious in the sammy case that the deliveries with which he took wickets with were barely anything special of note. He didnt take wickets by bowling good deliveries but by batsmen trying to accelerate the scoring and as such it is a feat he is hardly likely to repeat again. Krejza on the other hand, for those who have watched him bowl, has turned the ball significantly more than Harbhajan and Mishra(keep in mind Mishra is a leggie) and on several occasions bowled deliveries that were dangerous and difficult to play. Whether you like him or hate him, the ball that got Ganguly, and the one that got Dravid were fairly good deliveries by any means, heck even the one Dhoni got before Lunch on day 2 which turned and bounced would have got many good batsmen out.For a finger spinner to accomplish this on Day 1 is fairly impressive.

Whether the tailend wickets are of a lesser value or not is irrelevant to the way in which he bowled. Its easy to say that half of his wickets were tailenders, but its important to remember that the other half werent. Jason Krejza was the only bowler on the Australian side to continually ask questions and look to take wickets while the others bowled defensively outside the off stump or short into the rib cage. I think to brush off his performance in the manner which some people have done because of the volume of runs scored would be doing him a serious disservice, especially from someone who didnt even watch him bowl.

I realise fully that India attacked him all spell - and mostly this tactic was successful, that's the point. Only briefly, after a hell of a pasting for a long time, did Krejza do anything particularly good.
Look no one is calling him a world beater, no one has even mentioned the word test class in here. The point is that he bowled fairly well at times during that spell and that there are various attributes to suggest that he has potential. However, getting a mauling by the Indian batsmen in the subcontinent is hardly a barometer for how well someone has bowled especially considering 2 of the best spinners in modern times have had to face the same humiliation without managing to add anything to the right hand column like Krejza has done.

Had there been a bit of rain resulting in India declaring on 400 for 5 ish, we'd not be having this discussion. The point is that for most of the innings Krejza was woeful then one short blast at the end made woeful look quite good.
And you know that he is woeful how? Because you watched him bowl? Oh wait that didnt happen.
Sorry, but it defies logic to call someone woeful when you havent watched him bowl. I made a post about Krejza in the official tour thread during the lunch interval on Day 2 while India were still going at a canter where I suggested that he actually hadnt bowled badly so I dont think the resulting 5 wickets that fell to him changed my mind seriously with regards to that, rather they only confirmed my belief that he didnt actually bowl that badly.
Had it rained and resulted in india declaring at 400/5, it would not change the fact that he bowled fairly well at times, however his figures would only misrepresent the quality of his performance.AFAIC, for someone playing his first test, it showed a lot of character for him to produce the kind of performance he did with some of the best players of spin playing in top gear against him.
 

vic_orthdox

Global Moderator
Almost as much as some people's inability to stop commenting on people on their ignore-lists.

No, there's "do you think Krejza is better than Noffke, Siddle, Bollinger, Johnson, Tait, Hilfenhaus etc." which is actually rather important.

The answer is "no" to every single one of the above.
How many Aus pacers have taken more than 8 wickets in the series?

And I reckon they've probably all bowled more than 40 overs...
 

shankar

International Debutant
Richard IIRR you rated Giles's 5 wicket haul in India (in Ahmedabad?) despite 4 of the 5 coming from tail-enders or Laxman slogging. So how do you devalue Krejza's effort without even watching it?
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
Oh yes Jason Croatia!

Johnson, Lee, Sharma and Zaheer have never got 10 wickets in a match, but our man Krejza has already on debut.

Brilliant bowling to get two big wickets and change the momentum of the game.

His great spell also helped get the Dhoni wicket, you can't blame MS Dhoni for not wanting to get onto strike against Jason John Krejza.
 

NUFAN

Y no Afghanistan flag
A ring ding ding ding d-ding baa aramba baa baa barooumba
Wh-Wha-Whats going on-on
Ding ding
Lets do the Krejza froogg

Ding ding
A Brem Brem
A ring ding ding ding ding
A Ring Ding Ding Dingdemgdemg
A ring ding ding ding ding
Ring ding
Baa-Baa

Ring ding ding ding ding
A Ring Ding Ding Dingdemgdemg
A ring ding ding ding ding
a Bram ba am baba weeeeeee

BREAK DOWN!

Ding ding

Br-Br-Break It

dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum

Brem daem

dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum

weeeeeeee

A ram da am da am da am da weeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Wh-Whats Going On?

ding ding

Bem De Dem

ding ding

da da

A ring ding ding ding ding
A Ring Ding Ding Dingdemgdemg
A ring ding ding ding ding
Ring ding
Baa-Baa

Ring ding ding ding ding
A Ring Ding Ding Dingdemgdemg
A ring ding ding ding ding
a Bram ba am baba..

ding ding

Br-Br-Break It

dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum

Brem daem

dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum dum dum dum dumda dum dum

ding ding

Bem De Dem!
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
at the end of the day, australia still have a (faint) chance of winning this game because india only made 441 and not 600 in the first innings... test class or not, he's done a job and hasn't given up
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Richard IIRR you rated Giles's 5 wicket haul in India (in Ahmedabad?) despite 4 of the 5 coming from tail-enders or Laxman slogging. So how do you devalue Krejza's effort without even watching it?
Wondered if anyone might remember that.

Basically, the reason is that Giles bowled well and did not get carted by the top-order. Krejza was bashed all innings, had terrible figures, then got some end-of-innings wickets that made them look good.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
How many Aus pacers have taken more than 8 wickets in the series?

And I reckon they've probably all bowled more than 40 overs...
How many of them have had a pitch that's helped them in the slightest?

One game doesn't change the fact they're all better bowlers.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
The Sammy analogy is only marginally relevant to this situation. It is true that Krejza probably didnt bowl well enough to deserve 8 wickets much the same way that Sammy took 7 wickets, but it was blatantly obvious in the sammy case that the deliveries with which he took wickets with were barely anything special of note. He didnt take wickets by bowling good deliveries but by batsmen trying to accelerate the scoring and as such it is a feat he is hardly likely to repeat again. Krejza on the other hand, for those who have watched him bowl, has turned the ball significantly more than Harbhajan and Mishra(keep in mind Mishra is a leggie) and on several occasions bowled deliveries that were dangerous and difficult to play. Whether you like him or hate him, the ball that got Ganguly, and the one that got Dravid were fairly good deliveries by any means, heck even the one Dhoni got before Lunch on day 2 which turned and bounced would have got many good batsmen out.For a finger spinner to accomplish this on Day 1 is fairly impressive.

Whether the tailend wickets are of a lesser value or not is irrelevant to the way in which he bowled. Its easy to say that half of his wickets were tailenders, but its important to remember that the other half werent. Jason Krejza was the only bowler on the Australian side to continually ask questions and look to take wickets while the others bowled defensively outside the off stump or short into the rib cage. I think to brush off his performance in the manner which some people have done because of the volume of runs scored would be doing him a serious disservice, especially from someone who didnt even watch him bowl.

Look no one is calling him a world beater, no one has even mentioned the word test class in here. The point is that he bowled fairly well at times during that spell and that there are various attributes to suggest that he has potential. However, getting a mauling by the Indian batsmen in the subcontinent is hardly a barometer for how well someone has bowled especially considering 2 of the best spinners in modern times have had to face the same humiliation without managing to add anything to the right hand column like Krejza has done.

And you know that he is woeful how? Because you watched him bowl? Oh wait that didnt happen.
Sorry, but it defies logic to call someone woeful when you havent watched him bowl. I made a post about Krejza in the official tour thread during the lunch interval on Day 2 while India were still going at a canter where I suggested that he actually hadnt bowled badly so I dont think the resulting 5 wickets that fell to him changed my mind seriously with regards to that, rather they only confirmed my belief that he didnt actually bowl that badly.
Had it rained and resulted in india declaring at 400/5, it would not change the fact that he bowled fairly well at times, however his figures would only misrepresent the quality of his performance.AFAIC, for someone playing his first test, it showed a lot of character for him to produce the kind of performance he did with some of the best players of spin playing in top gear against him.
OK then, you can say that his previous figures did not do him justice, and that's fair enough. I'm not sure I'd agree, but as I say, I haven't watched the game ball-by-ball, so those who have who don't have a crazed the-figures-are-there-so-I-must-justify-them belief probably know a bit better.

As regards other spinners getting a mauling in India, well, almost 5-an-over all game isn't exactly common is it?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Wow, so they picked a spinner to suit the surface. By jesus, what bad selection!
Where exactly have I actually called it a bad selection? If the Cribbage logic has been used (I'm far from certain it has BTW, but let's give them the BOTD) then it's actually a perfectly decent selection. The point is not about the calibre of the selection but the calibre of Krejza relative to Australia's seamers. This one game doesn't make him better than 8 or 9 of them.
 

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