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In memory of William Gilbert Grace

archie mac

archie mac

International Coach
C_C said:
Conjencture is when you dont know either which way but prefer to find one way more valid than another.
Ie, i think they might've been good and its just as likely that they might've been really poor.
To assume that they would've been good is conjencture....... just as big a conjencture to say that they still would've failed ( which is not what i am saying)...the only credible way you can compare is not be subject to such conjencture and compare the game of player1 to player2 according to the quality at which they performed when they were active...
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Conjecture to me is basically a guess. I think it just about impossible to compare the players from different eras as thing have changed so much. So as I have said before I think the only way in to compare them is to compare them with their contemporaries.

There is a book called the 'top 100 & the First 11' in the book they compared players (Aust.) with their contemporaries using a formula. I thought the plan floored because those of Bradman's era were at a big disadvantage.
 
C_C

C_C

International Captain
Yes, a lot has changed- which is why i am saying that players in the modern age are better exponents.
That those players were the best of their contemporaries is not in dispute...but if you wish to tell me that Viv was just as good as some batsman from 1650s, i would disagree vehemantly.
Humanity has evolved and is still evolving - geneticaly, culturally and technologically.
It isnt fair to people in the anitquity but the facts remain that the leading lights 500 years ago posessed no more information on the whole than the average university minds today and the leading lights today will be no better than schoolchildren a few thousand years later.

I think in an attempt to be fair, you are losing sight of the fact that humanity has developed since the ages, thereby giving us the advantage.
How one would've responded a few hundred (or thousand) years ago with similar advantage is a guess- they could've succeeded or detailed video analysis would've exposed a flaw in their techniques..... it is just a guess.
The part that isnt guesswork, is saying that what they performed back then at 'exemplary standard' is no longer the exemplary standard today.
 
Lillian Thomson

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
It will be 93 years ago on October 23rd that WG died. Everyone should sit upon the carpet for at least an hour in contemplation.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
vic_orthdox said:
Same fella who remarked how windy the day was when he got bowled and stood his ground, putting the bails back on? :huh:
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Steulen said:
That one has always intrigued me. How on earth did he get away with it?

It reeks more than a little bit of the "some are more equal than others" attitude that the world has so much trouble getting rid of.
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vic_orthdox said:
He didn't. The umpire replied, "Yes it is windy. So you'd better hold onto your hat as you walk back to the pavilion" or words to that effect.
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marc71178 said:
Because more than often it was a very small profile game.
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pskov said:
Once when he was given out LBW, he stood his ground telling the umpire "All these people have come to watch me bat, not to watch you umpire!".
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Our friend Rodders might well be here fairly soon to give us the full story on these, but as I understand it at least one of the events alluded to above Grace was not even the player in question - rather it was his predecessor as England's leading batsman "Harry" Jupp, and the story has been projected onto Grace as the years have passed given that Grace's fame has outlasted Jupp's due to Grace's overwhelmingly superior skill.

If there ever was an instance where he told an Umpire that the crowd wasn't here to watch him Umpire, or the bowler that the crowd wasn't there to watch him bowl, or replaced the bails on being bowled, then it was in a match of no significance other than crowd-pulling. This sort of thing would not ever have happened in a match of serious competition.
 
Richard

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Given that the thread is now back on the front page, though, people may very well still read the posts and be misled by their content.

In addition pretty well everyone who posted 3 years ago, except C_C and Marc, is still around. So they can read the replies.
 
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fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
WG scored his 50th first class century when he was 27 - in the time he got 50 everyone else managed 109 between them (Harry Jupp with 10 was "second") - has to be the greatest dominance of batting by one man ever - doesn't it?
 
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Lillian Thomson said:
It will be 93 years ago on October 23rd that WG died. Everyone should sit upon the carpet for at least an hour in contemplation.
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What for someone who played in an era when playrs worse than schoolboy cricketers of today played international cricket? Someone who was a match fixer? Someone who was an outrightcheat? Bah !!

Seriously, I wish on this occasion I could share with those who haven't seen them the photographs of WG from George Beldam's wonderful book of photographs. Anyone has any idea how to do it without violating copyright norms.
 
archie mac

archie mac

International Coach
SJS said:
What for someone who played in an era when playrs worse than schoolboy cricketers of today played international cricket? Someone who was a match fixer? Someone who was an outrightcheat? Bah !!

Seriously, I wish on this occasion I could share with those who haven't seen them the photographs of WG from George Beldam's wonderful book of photographs. Anyone has any idea how to do it without violating copyright norms.
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How long does copyright last?
 
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
archie mac said:
How long does copyright last?
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I dont know. Normally I dont take it so seriously but I have always wondered how so many wonderful and so very rare cricket photographs are not available on the internet (Each of the two volumes has upward of 500 full page pictures each). I can only assume it is for reasons of copyright. Also the books are so frightfully expensive inspite of their being not much else besides the pictures (I don't care much about Fry's comments on each). You cant get then for less than around 500 USD per volume. I thought they wouldn't be so expensive if the pictures were available on internet.
 
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zaremba

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
fredfertang said:
WG scored his 50th first class century when he was 27 - in the time he got 50 everyone else managed 109 between them (Harry Jupp with 10 was "second") - has to be the greatest dominance of batting by one man ever - doesn't it?
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Amazing
 
fredfertang

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Here's a bit of WG trivia - he was a considerable athlete in his youth having a best of 10.8 seconds for 100 yards and 52.2 seconds for 440 yards - clearly not a candidate for the Mark Richardson challenge
 
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