Vaughan not picked for India tour

[Precambrian]

Thank heavens ECB didn't play any Ganguly card, and opted for the right decision here. Unless English middle order messes up terribly during winter, safe to predict curtains for Vaughan.

 

[Richard]

Unless English middle order messes up terribly during winter

You'd be a brave man to predict against that.

Should probably mention that the WI tour is quite a bit longer and thus will very probably contain another squad-member. Who is pretty likely to be Vaughan.

 

[Goughy]

You'd be a brave man to predict against that.

Should probably mention that the WI tour is quite a bit longer and thus will very probably contain another squad-member. Who is pretty likely to be Vaughan.

Yeah, this squad only has 6 bats. If another player is added then it must be a 7th batsman. If it isnt Vaughan Ill be shocked.

In fact Id go so far as to write another email to ECB

 

[Precambrian]

I'd go for Bopara than Vaughan. The former has done everything to earn a test cap this season, and the latter has proved to be a spent force. Couldn't even do anything in county cricket. It will be a step backward if Vaughan is preferred over Bopara. And terrible injustice to one of Bopara's talent.

 

[Goughy]

I'd go for Bopara than Vaughan. The former has done everything to earn a test cap this season, and the latter has proved to be a spent force. Couldn't even do anything in county cricket. It will be a step backward if Vaughan is preferred over Bopara. And terrible injustice to one of Bopara's talent.

It may be a backwards step but one I believe would increase the teams chances of winning. The lineup doesnt look so fragile with Vaughan there instead of Bopara.

Also, I wouldnt say it is a "terrible injustice". It isnt as if Bopara is a great talent. He had a good year this year (in the bottom division, I may add) but no better than say someone like Trott.

It isnt like leaving Bopara out is like leaving Bradman out. IMO, it isnt even like leaving leaving Patel out.

Bopara is a fringe player at the moment. Someone worthy of consideration yet no where close to an automatic selection.

It may be true that Vaughan is finished, but to exclude him from two consecutive tours after only just recently giving him a contract makes no sense.

I think the American expression holds true here. "The most popular man in town is the backup quarterback". Ie people think he could do better than the encumbant yet he never has to prove it and he never actually makes a mistake as he is always on the sidelines. A case of the 'grass is always greener on the other side'

 

[Richard]

I'd go for Bopara than Vaughan. The former has done everything to earn a test cap this season, and the latter has proved to be a spent force. Couldn't even do anything in county cricket. It will be a step backward if Vaughan is preferred over Bopara. And terrible injustice to one of Bopara's talent.

If you look hard Vaughan's not done much in county cricket since 2006, on the odd few occasions he's played. Didn't stop him stringing together some excellent Test form in the summer of 2007.

 

[Furball]

How can a lineup with Michael "walking wicket" Vaughan look less fragile?

Extra batsman for the West Indies should be Patel. If he has a good series with the bat in India (I know it's a different format, but bear with me), then a good start to his international career, combined with his excellent First Class record and season, means he should be at the top of the queue.

 

[sledger]

Suggesting Bopara to be a better player than Vaughan to me is so untrue it's not even funny.

 

[FBU]

Graeme Smith went through a similar lean spell when he was captain as Vaughan but he didn't talk about dropping the captaincy. I think the media played a part in him stepping down as all the speculation about whether he should be in the side put him under a lot of pressure. I wonder if the SA press were talking about dropping Smith from the side when his runs dried up. I think you need a thick skin and the backing from your coach and team. Hussain also had a lean spell but came out of it. In 2000 he played 11 Tests and his average was 15.00.

Smith - Oct 2005 - Jan 2007 - 13 Tests 709 runs 28.36. (batting 07 - 27.00)
Vaughan - Aug 07-July 2008 - 13 Tests 631 runs 27.43 (batting 08 - 24.20)

Vaughan will be back.
82 Tests 5719 runs at 41.44 18 hundreds 18 fifties

 

[tooextracool]

It may be true that Vaughan is finished, but to exclude him from two consecutive tours after only just recently giving him a contract makes no sense.

And as the saying goes, '2 wrongs dont make a right'. Vaughan will get paid irrespective of whether he plays or not and theres little point point in selecting him if hes not worth his place in the side on merit. Its not like hes scoring a bucketful of runs in FC cricket, and his lagging specter in the side as 'former captain' is only likely to have a negative effect on the rest of the players. Perhaps if he scored this winter in domestic cricket, he might be worth another shot, but given his overall domestic record that seems rather unlikely.

Personally, I would much rather go with Samit Patel for the WI, but a lot could change between now and then.

 

[tooextracool]

Graeme Smith went through a similar lean spell when he was captain as Vaughan but he didn't talk about dropping the captaincy. I think the media played a part in him stepping down as all the speculation about whether he should be in the side put him under a lot of pressure. I wonder if the SA press were talking about dropping Smith from the side when his runs dried up. I think you need a thick skin and the backing from your coach and team. Hussain also had a lean spell but came out of it. In 2000 he played 11 Tests and his average was 15.00.

Smith - Oct 2005 - Jan 2007 - 13 Tests 709 runs 28.36. (batting 07 - 27.00)
Vaughan - Aug 07-July 2008 - 13 Tests 631 runs 27.43 (batting 08 - 24.20)

Vaughan will be back.
82 Tests 5719 runs at 41.44 18 hundreds 18 fifties

The problem is that Vaughan's so called lean patch isnt exactly something that hes just experienced over the last year, its been clearly visible since he took over the captaincy in 2003. At many times, I have felt that perhaps the captaincy has had a noticable effect on his level of performance, which has clearly tailed (ironically from the very test match) that he took over. However, that does not explain his lack of performance at the FC level. It does not seem particularly surprising that Vaughan's test record is slowly rescinding to his FC average.

 

[FBU]

Former England captain Michael Vaughan is joining Telegraph Media Group as a cricket columnist.

Vaughan, who stood down after five years as England Test captain in August after a series defeat to South Africa, will write columns for the Sunday and the Daily Telegraph.

He will also contribute player profiles, batting tips and memories of his captaincy during England's 2005 Ashes victory to the Telegraph.co.uk TV.

 

[aussie]

Tbh I expect Monty Panesar to be as ordinary as he has been on his last 2 subcontinental tours. Not being able to toss the ball up is a crime when you bowl in the subcontinent and unless hes made some serious changes to his bowling I dont see him troubling too many batsmen. Similarly, theres little sense in picking 2 spinners when they are off the calibre of Monty and Swann, especially with the pace battery that England currently possess. Patel's role is to provide balance to the side, he will provide the backup to Monty Panesar while still allowing England to play their best bowlers in the side (Harmison, Flintoff, Anderson)

Fair idea, but the thing is techinically with no Jones or Hoggard only Flintoff (presuming India's wicket don't assit the seamer on any level) even the pace bowling attack isn't that solid ATM.

For Patel to have been IMO, he had to at least establish himself as definate top 6/7 player i.e Symonds for Australia. For me to consider the idea of him performing the roll of batsman that can offer solid overs of back-up spin, instead of the bits & pieces novice player, that he obviously still is at test level.

 

[tooextracool]

Fair idea, but the thing is techinically with no Jones or Hoggard only Flintoff (presuming India's wicket don't assit the seamer on any level) even the pace bowling attack isn't that solid ATM.

Indian pitches have always offered something for pace bowlers. Obviously the kind of effort required in order to succeed in India is completely different from the kind that bowlers can get away with in England or NZ, but in general there have been many pace bowlers who have had consistent success in India. Obviously, though you do need to have strong fitness levels to succeed as a pace bowler in India.

Im not sure about England's pace bowling attack to be honest. In Anderson's and Harmison's recent transformations Im optimistic but completely uncertain how well they will go. Obviously, Flintoff is about likely to succeed in India as he is anywhere in the world as he is a bowler of all seasons.

For Patel to have been IMO, he had to at least establish himself as definate top 6/7 player i.e Symonds for Australia. For me to consider the idea of him performing the roll of batsman that can offer solid overs of back-up spin, instead of the bits & pieces novice player, that he obviously still is at test level.

Patel's selection should be as a specialist batsman. His spin bowling role could best be termed as a bonus, that in Indian conditions would be very handy. Im far from a fan of Pietersen's rather innocuous off spinners and I believe that Patel's record in FC cricket(averaging nearly 50) is stronger than every member representing the England side, excluding Pietersen, let alone Shah, Bopara and Vaughan who he is competing with for a place in the side. If that in itself is not a strong enough case for his selection then I dont know what is.

 

[bhupabhupa]

It’s a strange discussion. I don’t know what the ECB is all about. Are they going to take chances against India, do they think that India is not that good Test team. Lets see what happens.

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bhupa

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