bryce
International Regular
Fine, I moved him up
Depends how much of a turner it is really. Question - if Lee & Clark would be stuffed what would Watson be? Injured?
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- Thread starter pup11
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Depends how much of a turner it is really. Question - if Lee & Clark would be stuffed what would Watson be? Injured?
social
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Agree with that but doubt it will happen
howardj
International Coach
Spot on that team.
It's a no-brainer really.
Johnson and Jaques will be favoured though, as the selectors worship at the alter of incumbency.
EDIT: altar
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Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah, there are two fairly obvious reasons for that, though. Firstly, I'm sure the selectors would have played an allrounder if they had one they thought was Test standard. Secondly, the bowling rarely needed extra help as such. When you have Warne, McGrath and, to a lesser extent, Gillespie, you don't need a fifth bowler. They were not only excellent bowlers but bowlers with great stamina who could bowl in both attacking and defensive modes. Warne and McGrath basically equalled three bowlers within themselves - not just because of their quality but because of their versatility. The current bowling attack is pretty inexperienced by Australian standards (and with MacGill gone now, international standards) and a few of the bowlers are now under some pressure to retain their places. The top 5 (and indeed the tail) looks as strong as ever so selecting a batsman to bat 6 who can also bowl to a decent standard makes perfect sense. It's not like Watson isn't a quality bat in his own right, either - he'd make every other Test team on batting alone at the moment.
Precisely the point, though. Over the last decade, they've tried to get an allrounder in there wherever possible. They picked Watson over Clarke for the last Ashes series originally before he was injured, and then replaced Martyn with Symonds who, despite what he has actually done with the bat since his selection at that point, was a failed Test batsman with a First Class record inferior to his competitors. I sincerely doubt the selectors would have backed Symonds to score more runs than Katich or Hodge when they selected him at the time - he was picked because he offered versatile bowling as well. Obviously in the event that they didn't have an allrounder worthy of selection they've gone with the specialist batsman, but Symonds and Watson mean they no longer have to go that way.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
If it was purely a batting spot, yes, but that's not what the selectors are looking for at #6.
Katich is a perfectly servicable opener and if he makes the team, that's where he'll be batting, he won't be picked over Watson because Watson's spot is uncontested. Katich would of course bat in the middle order if there was an injury, to Watson or anyone else, but if he's going to break into the test team right now it will be at the expense of Jaques.
The selectors showed in the WI that they'd pick Katich to open instead of promoting Hussey out of the middle order, anyway.
howardj
International Coach
It's slim pickings if you're a middle order bat trying to get into the Australian team. For mine, with the retirements of bluechip warriors McGrath and Warne and the dearth of spinners, the make-up of the team has changed irrevocably. That is, number six will, for the forseeable future, be occupied only by those who can send down at least 10 overs of serviceable bowling per day. Couple that with the fact that numbers 3-5 are pretty much cemented, it leaves little room for those who are exclusively middle order batsmen.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Lots of problems with that.
Firstly the obvious - Watson is not fit or durable enough to play any sort of cricket as one of the four main bowlers. I wouldn't even want him doing that for Queensland as he'd just get injured. Having him bowl more than 20 overs an innings would be very dangerous.
Secondly, the fact that it just wouldn't be needed. The Australian batting lineup is their strength at the moment - I really don't think they'd be much better served with having Watson come in at 7 and Haddin at 8. It'd probably result in a lot of declarations and a lot of wasted resources, especially on the flatter surfaces, and especially given the batting ability of Lee (and Johnson, if selected). The bowling lineup is comparatively weak and could really use the third specialist quick - Watson will be a great option to back them up but he doesn't have the fitness levels to be one of four bowlers.
Finally, I think you over-rate Watson's bowling a bit. It's oft under-rated IMO but he's certainly not good enough, regardless of his fitness levels, to play as one of the four best bowlers in a Test team ATM. His ODI bowling has improved quite a lot in the last few years so you could possibly make a case for him playing as one of four in one day cricket, but he still has a lot to learn regarding his bowling in the longer form before he could be considered for this, even if he shrugged off his injury woes and the Australian lower order needed propping up.
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James90
Cricketer Of The Year
Agree 100%
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Spot.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
In all seriousness, if Katich isn't picked to open ahead of Jaques, I really do think he should play in the middle order instead of Watson.
While I am a Watto fan, a test series in India is not the greatest place to make a comeback.
Not sure if his bowling in a country that is notorious for spin, is worth him being the all-rounder at 6 - and I'm not sure if he'd be that great with the blade, either.
Simply put, if Australia want to give the next generation guys like Watson, Johnson, insert spinner here, or the like, experience in a tough place like India, then by all means go ahead. I would understand that if it's their aim.
But if they want to win the series at all costs, I'd be going in with Katich at six, McGain as spinner and perhaps Noffke the third seamer.
Watson is probably best served making a test comeback at home versus a rather new and 'soft' adversary in New Zealand, in preparation for the South Africans, giving him some good experience ahead of the 2009 Ashes, IMO.
Can see him either getting injured in the heat, or suffering with bat and ball, and subsequently missing the home series.
While I am a Watto fan, a test series in India is not the greatest place to make a comeback.
Not sure if his bowling in a country that is notorious for spin, is worth him being the all-rounder at 6 - and I'm not sure if he'd be that great with the blade, either.
Simply put, if Australia want to give the next generation guys like Watson, Johnson, insert spinner here, or the like, experience in a tough place like India, then by all means go ahead. I would understand that if it's their aim.
But if they want to win the series at all costs, I'd be going in with Katich at six, McGain as spinner and perhaps Noffke the third seamer.
Watson is probably best served making a test comeback at home versus a rather new and 'soft' adversary in New Zealand, in preparation for the South Africans, giving him some good experience ahead of the 2009 Ashes, IMO.
Can see him either getting injured in the heat, or suffering with bat and ball, and subsequently missing the home series.
tooextracool
International Coach
Yeah, I do see your point and I agree that Australia have in recent times been looking for a 'Flintoff' amongst their ranks. However, I do not agree with this decision as I dont think Watson is likely to be anything more than a serviceable option in India. I can understand picking someone who bowls a bit of part time spin over someone like Katich, but that is simply not the case here. Do you honestly expect Watson to be threatening the likes of Tendulkar, Sehwag, Dravid and co in India? Picking someone, just because he can bowl 10-30-0 should not be an important aspect in making a test match selection IMO.
Also, as I suggested earlier, throwing Watson, who is essentially making a fresh start to his career, into a cauldron which is likely to be the case in one of the grounds in India is not the smartest thing to do. Its best to ease him into the side by playing a few games at home against some less noteworthy opponents rather than experimenting with him with so much on the line in India.
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pup11
International Coach
I couldn't help but laugh at that tbh, as bitter as that may sound but that isn't far from the truth, i am aatto fan like many other Aussies fans here but lets be serious Watto probably is one of the most injury prone cricketers world cricket has ever seen, he has this "handle with care tag"on him, and if he is going to step into such a hard fought contest as an all-rounder, with the heat and harsh conditions and everything, he would need to show tremendous levels of fitness to last through the test series without getting injured.
So from the Aussie POV i hope Watto stays fit and contributes well to the side, but i highly doubt him lasting through this series, of course i would love to be proven wrong on this.
tooextracool
International Coach
Did it really? I really like Katich, but its not like he set the world alight in that series. He scored runs on wickets where the pitches were flatter than pancakes and failed on the occasions when there was some juice in the pitch. In fact, its not even like he clearly outperformed Jaques who pretty much did the same. I dont expect much to change there, Katich to score on flat tracks as an opener, because he doesnt have the technique to succeed at the top. That doesnt mean that he wont succeed in India, but in the long run it will hurt his career rather than save it.
tooextracool
International Coach
All true, but as I alluded to earlier, I do not think it is the right thing to do. In a big series, its always better to use a proven middle order performer with a good track record against spin rather than throw a young gun with questionable fitness levels into the flames. If Australia want to play Watson in the side, and I dont doubt he might develop into a good all rounder, it is best to groom him slowly over time as the team's allrounder, starting after this series.
pup11
International Coach
Yeah the Aussie fascination to find an all-rounder begun since Freddie' 05 Ashes heroics and Watto looked like a decent prospect for that role and had he stayed fit he could have developed his bowling with time, because he has got the pace and rest of the technicalities of his bowling like his run-up, wrist position are also pretty decent, and he has always been a very good batsman, so if he could have remained fit he could have developed into an all-rounder in the Kallis mould (more of a batting all-rounder).
Having said that i won't just write off Watson' bowling even in Indian conditions, he can rush the batsmen with his pace and he more or less bowls wicket-to-wicket and he has a good back of the hand slower ball (ala Ian Harvey), so he could be handy with the ball too (fitness permitting) i am not saying he would win Australia any games with the ball but he would be handy nonetheless, but of course his main job is to bat well at no.6.
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pasag
RTDAS
Unless we were watching different games, Katich was in a different league to Jaques throughout the series. Ever since the SL series Jaques has looked iffy and doesn't seem to be coping too well with the pressure. I agree Katich opening isn't a long term solution and I hope we can see Jaques fill that role well for years to come, but right now for this must-win series it makes the most sense having Katich open, initially at least.
pup11
International Coach
But chances of that happening are really slim, i think the team management backs the likes of Watson, Johnson and Jaques to fill particular roles in the team, and as harsh or unfair it may seem likes of Katich, Bollinger or even Noffke would have to wait for their chances, of course the way these guys are performing it won't be easy for the Aussies managment to ignore them for too long.
So Watson, Johnson and Jaques would go into the first test under a lot of pressure as they know their replacements are breathing down their neck.
pup11
International Coach
Langer was a mini-dynamite and a lot of people don't really give him his due, he was a fantastic player and i can't see Katich doing as well him and neither is Katich a long-term opening option imo, he is much better off batting in the middle order as a reliable batsman.
Woodster
International Captain
Yes, I meant to put 'can't imagine Watson should be picked over Jaques or Katich'.
I can obviously see the benefits, in the extra bowler, but my concern would be is his bowling going to be more valuable, than say someone like Clarke ? If Watson only gets around 6 overs a day, for example, it would surely benefit Australia if Katich, who is clearly a better batsman, be selected for the number 6 role.
Maybe Ponting has great confidence in Watson's bowling ?