Are Kolpak players hurting English cricket?

[Richard]

He'll play for England in the next few years without doubt, as will Craig Kieswetter IMO.. Does it feel right for you to have Pietersen as captain?

Kieswetter would feel less odd if only because he made his First-Class debut in county cricket rather than playing provincial\franchise then just deciding out-of-the-blue that he preferred the UK... still a blatant SAfrican though, same as KPP.

And nah, it doesn't really feel weird having Pietersen as captain because I've really known English cricket without him very little (he came over here in 2000, same sort of time I started taking notice of the domestic game). Had I started to follow the domestic game a decade earlier it probably would. Though at least like Kieswetter he's in part British, and in fact out-and-out half-and-half rather than 3\4-and-1\4 like I think Kieswetter is. It's not much, given both had virtually left their teens behind them when they moved over, but it's better than nothing.

McLaren, though, he'd just be weird as they come. Rudolph too. No British ancestry, plenty of experience in SA domestic cricket, then just decides he wants to play for England for no apparent reason.

There's no doubt Pietersen wants to play for England and I can't find the slightest fault in that, same true of the Greigs, Lambs and Smiths.

 

[zaremba]

Was asking Richard tbh, but fair enough

I know. For what it's worth, which admittedly is not much, I'm pretty relaxed about England players not coming originally from England. Some of my favourite England players have been Saffers - my first ever sporting hero was Tony Grieg when he was England captain (I was very very young at the time). And Robin Smith was always a favourite, not least for his unbelievable 167* v Australia in 1993.

 

[Richard]

I've always been fairly relaxed about them too TBH, until recently. As I say, if that's what they want to do and that's what the rules allow them to do that's absolutely fair enough. As long as they give their all when playing for the team they've as much right to be playing as someone born and raised in Yorkshire or Kent (or East Stirlingshire) and I'll certainly support them as much as anyone else playing for England.

But I do wish the rules were different.

 

[zaremba]

I've always been fairly relaxed about them too TBH, until recently. As I say, if that's what they want to do and that's what the rules allow them to do that's absolutely fair enough. As long as they give their all when playing for the team they've as much right to be playing as someone born and raised in Yorkshire or Kent (or East Stirlingshire) and I'll certainly support them as much as anyone else playing for England.

But I do wish the rules were different.

This all too rarely happens, I know, but I agree with you 100%

 

[GIMH]

I'm on record saying this over and over, but the fact that KP has an English mum means there are no funny feelings for me when I watch him play for England. He's a legend.

 

[Langeveldt]

I've been fairly uptight about Somerset having Kolpaks, but seeing as every other county does, why can't we follow suit? No point in having a playing field that isn't level by only picking local players..

 

[Richard]

I'm on record saying this over and over, but the fact that KP has an English mum means there are no funny feelings for me when I watch him play for England. He's a legend.

So you'd feel odd for McLaren or Rudolph to play for England but not Pietersen?

Without wanting to over-bash the it's-upbringing-not-parentage-that-counts bandwagon... I'd either hate it or not mind it in both cases. If McLaren does turn-out for England it'll disappoint me that he has (not least because I'm also a SA fan) but once he is, he's clearly a quality cricketer and in the very possible event he has a good England career, I'll be applauding him for it and being glad it happened in the respect that it's made England better.

 

[GIMH]

So you'd feel odd for McLaren or Rudolph to play for England but not Pietersen?

Without wanting to over-bash the it's-upbringing-not-parentage-that-counts bandwagon... I'd either hate it or not mind it in both cases. If McLaren does turn-out for England it'll disappoint me that he has (not least because I'm also a SA fan) but once he is, he's clearly a quality cricketer and in the very possible event he has a good England career, I'll be applauding him for it and being glad it happened in the respect that it's made England better.

I honestly don't know how I'd feel. I think that everyone is different, some are more loyal to where they have grown up, some to their upbringing. I have a couple of 1st cousins who have lived the majority of their life in the States and are US citizens. They were born in Liverpool to English parents. Last time either of them was over here, my Dad remarked how the lad (the younger of the two and therefore the one with pretty much no memories of England) was "fiercely patriotic towards his motherland." People can go either way, some will be besotted with the land they grew up in, others will feel more loyalty to the nation that is in their blood, I honestly don't think anyone has any right to say one counts more than the other and that we should make birth, parentage and upbringing all valid forms of eligibility.

This is why I don't at all think KP is a mercenary; his mother is English and he supported us at some sport or another growing up (admits to supporting SA in some but England in others IIRC).

I don't know how I'd feel about somebody with no connections to the country other than having lived here playing for us, but at the end of the day we'd be stupid to turn someone who would improve our side down on the grounds of whether it felt icky or not.

 

[Richard]

As I say - that we'd be stupid is not up for question. What I feel should be up for question is whether a mere 3 years' residence should allow us to pick them.

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, I agree that residence qualifications are a bit lax. As I say, though, doesn't affect my view on KP's selection one bit as he feel he should have been eligible ever since birth

 

[Richard]

Meh. As I say - not a fan of players being eligable for more than 1 country at the same time TBH.

Nor am I much of a fan of players playing for 2 different countries (or counties), from u19 level upwards. Yes, sometimes your situation does become untenable with your current team (never forget Russell Warren having to leave Northants because he'd slept with about 3 team-mates' wives\girlfriends ), but those sorts of cases are pretty rare and I don't feel it's a valid reason for chopping-and-changing.

 

[GIMH]

Well what if someone had an English mum, Aussie dad, born in England, spent his youth living back and forth between the two. How could you declare such a player only eligible for one of those countries?

 

[Langeveldt]

As usual Richard you seem to be totally over analysing something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer.. I think that if a load of players can drop international cricket on a whim and go and play in some hit and giggle in India instead of playing for the country of their birth, then I don't think KP can be criticized too much for making an economic decision to emigrate.. Thousands do it every year.. My previous hatred for KP revolved around him having a whine about our system, when in reality he wasn't very good back then.. Turns out he made the right choice for him, so kudos..

My parents being English wouldn't phase me at all if I turned out for SA.. The fact that I was born and went to school there would though..

 

[GIMH]

You'd only be eligible for England, if it was up to me

(waits to become the 21st person removed from your facebook today)

 

[Langeveldt]

You'd only be eligible for England, if it was up to me

(waits to become the 21st person removed from your facebook today)

I think the likelihood of me playing international sport is very slim.. I harbour Goughyesque ambitions of playing it though, looking to play Badminton for South Africa, as the standard is so low

 

[Richard]

Well what if someone had an English mum, Aussie dad, born in England, spent his youth living back and forth between the two. How could you declare such a player only eligible for one of those countries?

There have to be exceptions for exceptional cases. And yes, such cases are very much exceptional. Not many people move around all that often.

 

[Richard]

As usual Richard you seem to be totally over analysing something that doesn't have a right or wrong answer..

Nah. You need to black-and-white this (under most circumstances - as I've said there are exceptions) IMO, I'm less than happy with the current system of "qualification". I feel it'd be better if it was black-and-white than many-shades-of-gray.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Interesting that Dicko thinks it's upbringing not parentage that counts when previously he's called himself a "true Welshman" despite having grown up on the correct side of Offa's Dyke from the age of 3 months or something.

 

[Richard]

If anyone told me I'd no right to play for Wales (not that you often do that - Wales is part of Britain and the UK after all) because I'd basically never lived there I'd have no objection whatsoever to that.

It's purely on an individual basis (which as I've stated time and again is entirely up to the individual to decide for themselves and no-one else can do a thing regarding that) that I consider myself Welsh. Though I also consider myself in equal parts Yorkshire and Geordie, as I've mentioned many times.

Individual and team decisions on nationality are not the same thing IMO. One can be changed whenever the individual feels like it without making any impact on anything else; the other should IMO be the same thing for the long-term.

 

[Uppercut]

On the subject at hand, I may be one of the few people who thinks Kolpaks are having little effect on English cricket. Not a ridiculous notion like the footballing equivalent, but i don't believe it likely that a player kept out of a poor county side by an average Kolpak (average ones being the most complained-about) would have went on to drastically improve the quality of the international side. Not many i've spoken to agree.