Are Kolpak players hurting English cricket?

[Neil Pickup]

It is their own fault for being idiots. TBF, they need stripping of FC status alongside Derbyshire and Leicestershire because none of the three counties have any proper function or purpose.

 

[Rickripper]

It is their own fault for being idiots. TBF, they need stripping of FC status alongside Derbyshire and Leicestershire because none of the three counties have any proper function or purpose.

That's a bit extreme isn't it? You can't blame them for making the most of the rules that were in place at the time. It's the ECB's fault for letting the situation get out of control.

I have nothing against Kolpaks, I believe that talented youngsters will force their way into the first teams if they're good enough. If it were possible, I would quite like to see a limit on them. Say, counties were allowed to field one overseas player, ie someone who had played international cricket in the last 12-18 months, and perhaps 3 more players who had no international caps, or had not played international cricket for some time. When you look at Kent or Northants, it does seem bad, but remember these are teams who still produce the likes of Joe Denly through their system.

 

[Langeveldt]

That's a bit extreme isn't it? You can't blame them for making the most of the rules that were in place at the time. It's the ECB's fault for letting the situation get out of control.

I have nothing against Kolpaks, I believe that talented youngsters will force their way into the first teams if they're good enough. If it were possible, I would quite like to see a limit on them. Say, counties were allowed to field one overseas player, ie someone who had played international cricket in the last 12-18 months, and perhaps 3 more players who had no international caps, or had not played international cricket for some time. When you look at Kent or Northants, it does seem bad, but remember these are teams who still produce the likes of Joe Denly through their system.

Also, how many of these Kolpaks are going to aim to qualify for England? Quite a few I'd imagine.. England could have a middle order of say Pietersen, McLaren, Kieswetter.. Which wouldn't be too shoddy at all.. Ignoring the fact that they may as well then be called Fouriesburg and Vanderbijlpark Touring XI

 

[Goughy]

That's a bit extreme isn't it? You can't blame them for making the most of the rules that were in place at the time. It's the ECB's fault for letting the situation get out of control.

I have nothing against Kolpaks, I believe that talented youngsters will force their way into the first teams if they're good enough. If it were possible, I would quite like to see a limit on them. Say, counties were allowed to field one overseas player, ie someone who had played international cricket in the last 12-18 months, and perhaps 3 more players who had no international caps, or had not played international cricket for some time. When you look at Kent or Northants, it does seem bad, but remember these are teams who still produce the likes of Joe Denly through their system.

Ive nothing against Kolpaks either. However, Ive a lot against Counties that have no self restraint or business sense.

How successful are the counies Neil named? They have introduced short term measures for little - no success. Its a terrible business model.

I actually dont like limited selection rules. Its very forced and never gets the balance right and protects Counties that cant run themselves correctly.

Picking up on another point, why allow 3 players with zero International caps? There are the players we need excluded. They are taking places, jobs and money away from English players without performing at a high level. Just another group of players to clog the system.

As for the final point, let me know when Denly does something.

 

[Richard]

That's a bit extreme isn't it? You can't blame them for making the most of the rules that were in place at the time. It's the ECB's fault for letting the situation get out of control.

No, it's not. The ECB have done precisely nothing wrong on the overseas-player-playing-as-non-overseas-player front. It's someone (maybe lots of people) at the EU's fault for allowing what should have been a pretty straightforward ruling to be misinterpreted.

 

[Rickripper]

Picking up on another point, why allow 3 players with zero International caps? There are the players we need excluded. They are taking places, jobs and money away from English players without performing at a high level. Just another group of players to clog the system.

As for the final point, let me know when Denly does something.

I take it that you're of the view that county cricket's primary objective is to produce top class international players? I would like to think it was, but the recent developments in Twenty20 cricket (which, don't forget, is still played very sparingly at international level) suggest otherwise.

As for Denly, he's the best young English opening batsman on the county circuit this season, in both four-day and one-day games. In fact, the majority of batsmen who have scored more runs than him this season are Kolpaks, or former England internationals.

 

[Goughy]

I take it that you're of the view that county cricket's primary objective is to produce top class international players? I would like to think it was, but the recent developments in Twenty20 cricket (which, don't forget, is still played very sparingly at international level) suggest otherwise.

If I was then it wouldnt be for other Countries. Adding uncapped foreign players to rosters hurts English cricket both ways. Makes no sense.

As it stands, I dont think County cricket is a slave (or production line) for International cricket. It does not exist to produce players for International cricket.

 

[Rickripper]

If I was then it wouldnt be for other Countries. Adding uncapped foreign players to rosters hurts English cricket both ways. Makes no sense.

As it stands, I dont think County cricket is a slave (or production line) for International cricket. It does not exist to produce players for International cricket.

I know what you're getting at, but if it's not about producing good English cricketers, then what's the harm in players like Boje, Langeveldt, Mclaren, Kemp etc? They're quality cricketers who people pay money to see.

 

[Goughy]

I know what you're getting at, but if it's not about producing good English cricketers, then what's the harm in players like Boje, Langeveldt, Mclaren, Kemp etc? They're quality cricketers who people pay money to see.

Ive no issue with teams playing these guys. However, it needs to be part of a long term framework.

The teams Neil mentioned look to be lurching from one short term solution to the next. What is the point of their existence? Would the CC be a better without teams like this (small market Counties, with lots of foreign talent taking money out of the English game and purely making up the numbers and surviving more than most of ECB subsidies)? My answer is, possibly.

Ive no issue with a McLaren or Kemp playing County cricket. I dont really mind Boje or Langeveldt either (though I dont think many people pay to go watch these guys).

However, a team made up of foreign journeymen is a pretty pointless exercise.

All this however is unrelated to my point that Counties should not be a place for large numbers of uncapped and unproven foreign talent.

 

[Woodster]

They already have one in place tbf. Everytime a county doesn't play 9 English-qualified players it costs them £1100 per Kolpak per county game & £275 per List A. Link to BBC.

Yes, I knew they had one in place, so I can only presume that the next one must be much more severe in financial terms.

 

[Richard]

The idea of demoting Northants to Minor County status is an interesting one.

I'm instinctively opposed to such moves, but there's no automatic reason not to do it.

The shame about Leicestershire is that if you got rid of all their Kolpaks for next season they'd have lots of perfectly reasonable prospects as home-grown batsmen: New, Boyce, Smith, Cobb, Taylor, Nixon is far from the worst line-up going around. Their problem is the bowling: when the likes of Ormond, Kasprowicz, Mullally and even more mundane types like Dakin leave the club in a short space of time it's always going to create problems and aside from imports like Srinath, Gibson, Willoughby, Langeveldt, Lawson, du Preez, Kruger and Henderson (not all of whom have been the outstanding performers they might be expected to be) they've basically never had a good bowler since then, though they did have DeFreitas back for a while. Their current British crop (Malik, Cummins, Rowe, Naik, Cliff) is truly pitiful.

And of course they've also lost batsmen like Maddy, Sutcliffe, Wells and Stevens in that time.

An almost identical situation exists at Somerset, though there haven't been quite such exoduses there.

 

[four_or_six]

It is their own fault for being idiots. TBF, they need stripping of FC status alongside Derbyshire and Leicestershire because none of the three counties have any proper function or purpose.

It's not just as if it's the smaller counties. Look at Surrey's bowling attack today:

SC Meaker (SA)
Murtaza Hussain (Pak)
Shoaib Akhtar (Pak)
Pedro Collins (WI)

 

[Richard]

And Meaker's been being ignored in favour of Chris Jordan for most of the season as well. Though Jordan isn't quite the same as some others, in that he's in that I've-not-made-the-choice-yet-ner-ner-ner-ner-ner-ner-I-can-play-in-either camp that Andrew Symonds was in 1995.

Be a good idea for someone to do something to force Jordan to make the choice - can't remember if he's still 19 or younger, if so then pick him for England u19s and see if he says yes or decides his loyalties are with Barbados.

TBT, I hope he decides the latter - think his parentage is 3\4 Barbadian and 1\4 British.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

SC Meaker (SA)

Played for England U-19 and went to school at Cranleigh.

Point reasonably well made still, though.

 

[zaremba]

Be a good idea for someone to do something to force Jordan to make the choice - can't remember if he's still 19 or younger, if so then pick him for England u19s and see if he says yes or decides his loyalties are with Barbados.

TBT, I hope he decides the latter - think his parentage is 3\4 Barbadian and 1\4 British.

I thought you saw parentage as irrelevant as far as which country you play for is concerned?

 

[Richard]

I see it as less relevant than residence. And I don't know anything about Jordan's ubringing, but the stuff I've read about him seems to suggest he's been Barbadian-raised.

 

[zaremba]

I see it as less relevant than residence. And I don't know anything about Jordan's ubringing, but the stuff I've read about him seems to suggest he's been Barbadian-raised.

Indeed he has.

 

[morgieb]

It's not just as if it's the smaller counties. Look at Surrey's bowling attack today:

SC Meaker (SA)
Murtaza Hussain (Pak)
Shoaib Akhtar (Pak)
Pedro Collins (WI)

Hardly Surrey's fault. Well, I don't think that Sailsbury should've been let go, but Ormond's lack of form is not Surrey's fault. Why they let go of Murtagh I dunno.

 

[Rickripper]

Dernbach has been fairly impressive of late, but he hasn't really got the wickets to show for it.

 

[Richard]

Hardly Surrey's fault. Well, I don't think that Sailsbury should've been let go, but Ormond's lack of form is not Surrey's fault. Why they let go of Murtagh I dunno.

Ormond's Surrey form has gotten steadily worse since he joined the county and I can't conceive he'll be offered a new deal whenever it is this current one runs-out.

Hopefully for Surrey's sake the answer is the end of this season. And ditto Schofield.