***Official*** Sajid Mahmood

[GIMH]

Last I read he was considering not playing for Victoria this winter and going on an England Lions tour or something. He looks like Christian from Eastenders, though.

 

[pskov]

The sad thing for me whenever I think about Sajid Mahmood is that his first spell in his debut test against Sri Lanka really was an excellent spell of bowling. He was swinging it both ways at good pace (around 88 mph) and took three wickets (Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Kapugedegra, so no mugs either).

But then of course he bowled rubbish in the second innings and we all know the rest of the story...

 

[GIMH]

Yeah, think there were black clouds overhead when he bowled his first spell in Test Cricket. You couldn't ask for much more as a seamer on debut really.

 

[Manee]

I am feeling pedantic tonight. They aren't speech marks. They are inverted commas.

Nah, they are really close together.

 

[GIMH]

 

[Richard]

The sad thing for me whenever I think about Sajid Mahmood is that his first spell in his debut test against Sri Lanka really was an excellent spell of bowling. He was swinging it both ways at good pace (around 88 mph) and took three wickets (Sangakkara, Samaraweera and Kapugedegra, so no mugs either).

But then of course he bowled rubbish in the second innings and we all know the rest of the story...

Yeah, think there were black clouds overhead when he bowled his first spell in Test Cricket. You couldn't ask for much more as a seamer on debut really.

Nah, there weren't actually - it was a bright, clear evening on a flat deck. But Sangakkara's wicket that started it all was sheer woefulness, you expect so much better from the likes of him. In any case, I'm sure any decent bowler has bowled a good 3.2 overs before (he took 3-6 in them). People went way, way OTT about those 3.2 overs, including Duncan "the most promising England player I've ever worked with" Fletcher.

In the rest of the Test his figures were 44.4-162-2. And of his other 17 Test wickets after those first 3.2 overs, almost half (8) were rank tailenders (Kulasekara, Umar Gul x2, Shahid Nazir x2, Stuart Clark x2 and Glenn McGrath) and 5 others (Maharoof x2, Faisal Iqbal and Kamran Akmal x2) are hardly the sort of batsmen you'd call beacons of Test excellence. Only 4 (Samaraweera again, Younis Khan, Gilchrist and Hayden) were really of any note.

Mahmood's Test record could and should be one hell of a lot worse. In 185 overs after that initial spell, he's taken 9 wickets which are worth anything (that's a SR of 123) and his economy-rate (4.04) is from the very worst bracket.

 

[Langeveldt]

If he continues to put in decent performances in the CC I don't really see why not tbh, considering the circumstances I thought he actually did ok in his match, hopefully the fact that the selectors ballsed it up so badly won't effect him too much.

Yeah agreed.. Feel quite sorry for him, seeing as he actually did very little wrong on his debut

 

[Richard]

I don't know about "very little wrong" - it's not like he bowled particularly well. He was merely respectable. He's not someone I'd be rushing to say should be picked again.

 

[Uppercut]

Nah, there weren't actually - it was a bright, clear evening on a flat deck. But Sangakkara's wicket that started it all was sheer woefulness, you expect so much better from the likes of him. In any case, I'm sure any decent bowler has bowled a good 3.2 overs before (he took 3-6 in them). People went way, way OTT about those 3.2 overs, including Duncan "the most promising England player I've ever worked with" Fletcher.

In the rest of the Test his figures were 44.4-162-2. And of his other 17 Test wickets after those first 3.2 overs, almost half (8) were rank tailenders (Kulasekara, Umar Gul x2, Shahid Nazir x2, Stuart Clark x2 and Glenn McGrath) and 5 others (Maharoof x2, Faisal Iqbal and Kamran Akmal x2) are hardly the sort of batsmen you'd call beacons of Test excellence. Only 4 (Samaraweera again, Younis Khan, Gilchrist and Hayden) were really of any note.

Mahmood's Test record could and should be one hell of a lot worse. In 185 overs after that initial spell, he's taken 9 wickets which are worth anything (that's a SR of 123) and his economy-rate (4.04) is from the very worst bracket.

Well if you take out those batting at 8-11, this man, currently playing as a specialist bowler for England averages over 80.

 

[Prince EWS]

This is my official thread to announce that Saj Mahmood is a quality bowler.

Pace - Deadly
Accuracy - Improving
Reverse Swing - Yes...

I agree; he's a quality First Class bowler. That should be respected more than in it on this forum.

However, he's not Test standard and I highly doubt he ever will be. He's certainly isn't a quality Test bowler.

 

[Prince EWS]

Last I read he was considering not playing for Victoria this winter and going on an England Lions tour or something. He looks like Christian from Eastenders, though.

The funny thing about that is, I doubt Victoria would care much at all.

 

[Richard]

I agree; he's a quality First Class bowler. That should be respected more than in it on this forum.

I really don't think he is. His figures for Lancashire this season have been - unusually - more towards the average than the poor side, but they've flattered him hugely. As I mentioned earlier in the season, case-in-point is a game against Sussex where he got 8 in the match without bowling a single wicket-taking delivery (and his economy-rate meant you certainly couldn't credit him with causing the batsmen to feel under pressure due to slow scoring-rate).

Of those on his own county's books, I'd still take Chapple, Cork, Anderson, Flintoff, Smith and Hogg ahead of him, and there's little to choose between him and Newby either.

At least he does have a case for being a better bowler than batting-all-rounders like Croft, Mullany, Cheetham etc. (probably cue Bennett or Dav to tell me that the latter two are actually bowling-all-rounders).

 

[Prince EWS]

I really don't think he is. His figures for Lancashire this season have been - unusually - more towards the average than the poor side, but they've flattered him hugely. As I mentioned earlier in the season, case-in-point is a game against Sussex where he got 8 in the match without bowling a single wicket-taking delivery (and his economy-rate meant you certainly couldn't credit him with causing the batsmen to feel under pressure due to slow scoring-rate).

He's not a bowler who should be really pushing for Test honours, no. But when you consider the amount of First Class teams in England, he'd be in the top third of frontline bowlers, I'd say. I could be wrong as there are quite a few I haven't really analysed extensively and even more who I've never actually seen bowl a spell, but I'd think he'd generally walk into most counties and find a spot immediately.

 

[fredfertang]

As a good Lancastrian (by upbringing if not by birth) I have been defending Saj against criticism ever since he first broke into the selectors thinking - I have however after this season come to the conclusion I have been wasting my breath

 

[Richard]

He's not a bowler who should be really pushing for Test honours, no. But when you consider the amount of First Class teams in England, he'd be in the top third of frontline bowlers, I'd say. I could be wrong as there are quite a few I haven't really analysed extensively and even more who I've never actually seen bowl a spell, but I'd think he'd generally walk into most counties and find a spot immediately.

Here's a list of those who've played this season (British\Irish players only - wouldn't be fair to bring in the Willoughbys, Thomases, Langeveldts, du Preezes and half of the rest of the best bowlers in SA) who I'd consider superior seamers to him:
Kevin Dean, Stephen Harmison, Mark Davies, Neil Killeen, David Masters, Antonio Palladino, Adam Shantry, James Harris, Jonathan Lewis, Chris Tremlett, Dimitri Mascarenhas, Glen Chapple, Dominic Cork, James Anderson, Andrew Flintoff, Tom Smith, Kyle Hogg, Chris Silverwood, Alan Richardson, Paul Franks, Mark Ealham, Ryan Sidebottom, Andy Caddick, Jason Lewry, James Kirtley, Robin Martin-Jenkins, Boyd Rankin, Kabir Ali, Simon Jones, Imran Arif, Darren Gough, Matthew Hoggard, Stephen Kirby, Charles Shreck.

That is a looooot of bowlers. And while there isn't quite enough there to make-up 18 full county attacks, with the number of quality SAfrican (and occasionally elsewhere) imports there aren't that many counties under current rulings who I myself would pick him for on merit. When the ECB can once more regulate reasonably tightly on overseas players (ie, from 2010) then things might change again.

 

[GIMH]

The funny thing about that is, I doubt Victoria would care much at all.

Yeah, been following the Aussie domestic thread thus far (hope I can keep it up as I want to try and keep a close eye on things down under from now on), can't say I've seen his name discussed too much

 

[Richard]

IIRR, there'd be something like 7 ahead of him in the pecking-order should he make himself available: Harwood, Lewis, Denton, Wise, McDonald, Siddle, McKay and of course Dirk Nannes. Plus of course Bryce McGain the wristspinner.

Victoria's ability to produce seamers is fairly remarkable: they've also had Inness and Harvey quit them in recent years. I seem to recall some vaguely useful wristspinner playing for them occasionally pre-McGain too.

 

[Top_Cat]

IIRR, there'd be something like 7 ahead of him in the pecking-order should he make himself available: Harwood, Lewis, Denton, Wise, McDonald, Siddle, McKay and of course Dirk Nannes. Plus of course Bryce McGain the wristspinner.

Victoria's ability to produce seamers is fairly remarkable: they've also had Inness and Harvey quit them in recent years. I seem to recall some vaguely useful wristspinner playing for them occasionally pre-McGain too.

Siddle and Nannes, sure. But for one, Wise is now in South Australia colours and for two, the others, whilst excellent bowlers, are all in and out of the side due to injuries generally. Victoria produces lots of good but fragile quicks. haha

Due to his age and raw speed, I'd back Saj to get a spot above most of them if he came over within the next year or two.

 

[Prince EWS]

IIRR, there'd be something like 7 ahead of him in the pecking-order should he make himself available: Harwood, Lewis, Denton, Wise, McDonald, Siddle, McKay and of course Dirk Nannes. Plus of course Bryce McGain the wristspinner.

Victoria's ability to produce seamers is fairly remarkable: they've also had Inness and Harvey quit them in recent years. I seem to recall some vaguely useful wristspinner playing for them occasionally pre-McGain too.

Wise has gone to South Australia, Lewis has retired and I'm pretty sure Denton either retired or signed a low-level contract with another state as well, so there's an opening or two.

Pattinson would definitely have been in their one day cricket plans and he probably would have played the odd First Class game as well but I don't think Clinton McKay, who he was probably ahead of in the pecking order, is a significantly worse bowler. As I said, if Pattinson decides not to play, I doubt many will care.

 

[andyc]

Goughy to answer your question from the other thread...
Bout six weeks ago mate. Got a job offer from a friend of friend to come over to China for initially a year. Job is fairly exciting, everyday is something new and my lifestyle is good. Chinese (Mandarin) is also not that difficult to pick up and I haven't had any culture shock experiences thus far.

Best guy.