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***Official*** English Domestic Season 2008

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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I just think it could act as a discouragement for counties to produce England players in the long-term. Sure, you could argue that central contracts in themselves do that, but it's a nice crowd puller and good for team spirit when England players come back to their counties, and I think counties should still maintain that privelige if that's where the top players want to play.

I suppose you could actually argue that England players returning to their counties is actually bad for team spirit, could go either way really
 

Jungle Jumbo

International Vice-Captain
Interesting ideas Goughy. I'm inclined to think along the lines of GIMH regarding the central contracts issue, but the two overseas players for Division One, none in Division Two is a bit more interesting.

What would happen outside of Championship cricket? Surely it would be a bit unfair for Division Two Yorkshire with no overseas players to have to play Division One Lancashire with Muralitharan and Hodge, for example?
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Ah, in the one-day games, that is an interesting one
Yeah, to be fair I hadnt thought of that. Id concentrated on FC. It would be a problem.

Unless I got my own way and abolished Limited Overs cricket :)

FC and a big T20 comp would make me happier :p
 
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GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The way I was expecting you to answer, was for you to say something along the lines of that your proposals would encourage sides to focus on FC, if their FC side suffers then their OD side will by default as they will be restricted as to who they can sign. If that makes any sense.

You'll pretty much be getting your way in 2010, anyhow, as there will be FC, loads of T20 and just the one OD comp
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
The way I was expecting you to answer, was for you to say something along the lines of that your proposals would encourage sides to focus on FC, if their FC side suffers then their OD side will by default as they will be restricted as to who they can sign. If that makes any sense.

You'll pretty much be getting your way in 2010, anyhow, as there will be FC, loads of T20 and just the one OD comp
I wish my thoughts were that detailed. I just plain forgot about OD cricket :)
 

stumpski

International Captain
Indeed, and although I haven't been able to find confirmation, I believe that is a first. Even in the grim days of 1978 when we finished 16th (out of 17) we managed three wins.

Mark Butcher telling it like it is, here. And Butcher senior is believed to have left the club, along with Nadeem Shahid and Geoff Arnold (who must be very close to retirement age anyway).

No news on the captaincy as yet, Ramps is the only logical successor if Butch does go, and he would clearly only be a stopgap.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Disappointing to see Alan Butcher apparently taking the blame for something that, UIMM, he has small amount of fault for.
 

Magrat Garlick

Rather Mad Witch
Indeed, and although I haven't been able to find confirmation, I believe that is a first. Even in the grim days of 1978 when we finished 16th (out of 17) we managed three wins.
No wins in 1871. Wasn't any officially organised championship that year, but Wisden crowned a champion (Notts) and they did play 13 county matches (+ a game against MCC which they won). They even lost to Cambridge.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
:laugh: How do you do this sort of thing Haakon?

Unless you knew that off the top of your head, it must've taken hours to research. I only very rarely spend that long on ATS.

Wish I had you on the damn team TBH.
 

stumpski

International Captain
Surrey are still one of the few teams never to have finished bottom of the 'official' Championship - generally reckoned to date from 1890. 1978 was the worst since then in terms of final position. I didn't know about 1871 tbh.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
the 'official' Championship - generally reckoned to date from 1890.
Universally recognised to date from TBH. That was when the points system was agreed on, and without a points system you can't have a championship.

As most affectionados know Wisden has a list of champions "most commonly selected" by the cricket press that season. But clearly a) such a list cannot be regarded as exhaustive and b) obviously no-one can be champions just because a lot of books and newspapers said they were.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Anyway amongst the many surveys and lists we've had on CW in recent times, here's another quick one. I reckon there are 96 overseas-players who've played First-Class cricket for a county this season, be they England-qualified (by residence, marriage, parentage or birth) or not (this excludes Hick, Caddick, Pietersen and Trott, who would qualify if they hadn't played for England, though Pattinson is included as he should never have gotten near England selection).

They fit the following categories:
Overseas-player - player who has no connection to Britain or The UK, and is playing purely because the ECB has decided to allow them to. If this invitation was withdrawn, these players would not be able to play for a county.
EU-passport player - player who the ECB cannot bar from being signed as a pro due to the current EU law (which does not recognise professional sport as any different to any other profession), but who are in no way British.
Kolpak or Kolpak-eligable player - these may soon be a thing of the past, but right now and for the past 4 years anyone with a South African, Zimbabwean or West Indian passport has been able to be employed as if they were British.
British passport of convenience players - players who are in essence foreign, and have learned their cricket overseas, but have acquired British passports and can now be employed as British citizens.

Overseas: Chris Rogers, Danish Kaneria, Jason Gillespie, Marcus North, Shane Bond, Yasir Arafat, Brad Hodge, Mohammad Yousuf, Lou Vincent, Murali Kartik, Adam Voges, Justin Langer, Matthew Nicholson, Abdur Razzaq, Shoaib Akhtar, Mushtaq Ahmed, Mohammad Sami, Chris Martin, Steve Magoffin, Dilhara Fernando, Rana Naved-ul-Hasan.
EU-passport: Michael di Venuto, Paul Wiseman, Ryan ten Doeschate, Nic Pothas, Dirk Nannes.
Kolpak or Kolpak-eligable: Wavell Hinds, Charl Langeveldt, Greg Smith, Dominic Telo, Neil McKenzie, Albie Morkel, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Dale Benkenstein, Garry Park, Andre Nel, Grant Flower, Grant Hodnett, Mornantau Hayward, Rory Kleinveldt, Imran Tahir, Sean Ervine, Martin van Jaarsveld, Justin Kemp, Ryan McLaren, Francois du Plessis, Boeta Dippenaar, Hylton Ackerman, Claude Henderson, Jermaine Lawson, Dillon du Preez, Garnett Kruger, Jacques du Toit, Vernon Philander, Johann Louw, Andrew Hall, Lance Klusener, Nico Boje, Johannes van der Wath, Riki Wessels, Ashwell Prince, Andre Adams, Zander de Bruyn, Craig Kieswetter, Alfonso Thomas, Charl Willoughby, Pedro Collins, Murray Goodwin, Corey Collymore, Monde Zondeki, Morne Morkel, Jacques Rudolph, Gideon Kruis.
British-passport of convenience: Mitchell Claydon, Callum Thorp, Gareth Berg, Andrew Crook, Steven Crook, Murtaza Hussain, Stewart Walters, Chris Jordan, Ryan Harris, Raghab Aga, Ant Botha, Neil Carter, Tim Groenewald, Hamish Marshall, Azhar Mahmood, James Allenby, Darren Pattinson, Saqlain Mushtaq, Dawid Malan, Neil Dexter, Stephen Moore, Matthew Mason. Craig Spearman, Stuart Law.

The big trouble here is the number of third-rate players in the one category which the ECB has no power to remove. Of those who have British passports, only Hamish Marshall, Azhar Mahmood, Allenby, Pattinson, Saqlain Mushtaq, Malan, Dexter, Moore and Mason really do much if anything for the standard. The other 15 we could quite happily do without, including Spearman and Law who surely can't have long left.
 
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