***Official*** English Domestic Season 2008

[SpaceMonkey]

Reckon Kervezee will have something to say about that.

Alot is expected of Kervezee, although it may be a bit early still.

 

[Goughy]

Ill have no complaints if Yorks go down. As I said earlier in the season (and Im likely not the only one), this is possibly the worst Yorkshire team in recent memory.

Would like to see Notts win it.

 

[GIMH]

Think a few people thought Notts would do well once we all realised how good their attack was...reckon they'll do it. Strange side, this will I believe be their second title in four years but they have been relegated and promoted in between. Never a dull moment, it would seem...

 

[Richard]

On a recent subject... how many of Notts' excellent attack are home-grown?

AFAICS, it's a sum-total of 1: Franks, who's been a bit-part, very ineffective bowler this term.

Sidebottom - Yorkshire import (and hardly played anyway)
Pattinson - Australian
Adams - Kiwi
Ealham - Kent import
Broad - Leics import
Swann - Northants import
Shreck - Cornwall import

 

[GIMH]

Thought that that Pattinson bloke was homegrown?

 

[Richard]

Is Grimsby actually in Nottinghamshire, as an aside (not that it being so would make Pattinson any less Australian)? Honestly don't have a clue where it is.

 

[Goughy]

On a recent subject... how many of Notts' excellent attack are home-grown?

AFAICS, it's a sum-total of 1: Franks, who's been a bit-part, very ineffective bowler this term.

Sidebottom - Yorkshire import (and hardly played anyway)
Pattinson - Australian
Adams - Kiwi
Ealham - Kent import
Swann - Northants import
Shreck - Cornwall import

Its actually one of the reasons I like them. They produce a decent amount of local talent but are not afraid to let hem move on and look outside and find the right pieces.

They invest in talent and are well managed. They bring players to fit into their team but add others to the communal talent pool.

 

[Richard]

Most of their batsmen are imports too TBF. Jefferson (Essex), Wood (Somerset), Wagh (Warwickshire), Voges (Australia), Prince (South Africa). Only regular first-teamers who've performed well that were produced by Notts' own system are Read, Patel and, latterly, Shafayat.

You can't begrudge them making good signings, of course not - if other counties can't be bothered to hang-on to good talent, that's their fault, I doubt Notts were tapping-up any of these players, in fact I can fairly well remember almost every one of their former counties deliberately releasing them. But it doesn't say much about the quality of their recruitment and coaching.

One thing to say in mitigation: they tried to keep William Smith despite him being a poor performer for them, and sure enough he decided to leave and this season has had excellent success elsewhere.

 

[GIMH]

Is Grimsby actually in Nottinghamshire, as an aside (not that it being so would make Pattinson any less Australian)? Honestly don't have a clue where it is.

90% sure it's in Lincolnshire. Certainly not in Notts.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Is Grimsby actually in Nottinghamshire, as an aside (not that it being so would make Pattinson any less Australian)? Honestly don't have a clue where it is.

Pickup to behead you asap.

(Corrin correct, btw)

 

[Richard]

Pickup to behead you asap.

You think he hasn't tried before now?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Glamorgan completely bottle it vs Worcs. Top 3 all out for 0 and we win by 103 runs after only scoring 186. Will be nice to be in both top divisions next year.

 

[zaremba]

Will be nice to be in both top divisions next year.

Congratulations to Worcershire on their double promotion - very impressive stuff.

 

[Goughy]

As much as I dont like the ideas out of principle, I cant think of a good reason against them.

Here goes. Lets start with 3 facts.

There are 2 divisions in County Championship
1 Overseas player is allowed per team
Centrally contracted players are employed by ECB who dictate when they play.

Now lets make a few suggestions that are small tweaks that would likely have beneficial effects on the standard of play but may change the nature of the FC competition.

2 Overseas players in Div 1- Improve the standard and offers the best competition possible for top tier English players

No overseas players in Div 2- Stops money being taken outside the English game and keeps more spaces and game time for English players and fringe players from Div 1 teams on loan.

and perhaps most controversially

Have Centrally Contracted players play exclusively in Div 1- If their County isnt there then the ECB loans them to a predetermined Div 1 team for the season. It keeps the best players playing at the highest level (what is the point of a supposed elite cricketer slumming it in Div 2) and further improves the standard of Div 1. The stronger the better in preparation for International cricket.

A combination of all 3 would (hopefully) improve the standard of play at the top level and kep expenses down in the lower division (due to lack of overseas players and loans) as well as widening the English player base.

Now Im not proposing these ideas. Just throwing them out there to keep us on our toes.

 

[zaremba]

Will you still say this if Yorkshire get relegated next week?

 

[Goughy]

Will you still say this if Yorkshire get relegated next week?

You get what you deserve in this World. If these were the rules and Yorks went down then it would be noones fault but their own.

In fact, it may actually kick Yorkshire up the backside and get them to pay players (Gough left before returning, Sidebottom, Kirby, Silverwood etc) rather than nickel and diming and relying on the cheap production line of young talent before moving them on when they want veteran money.

TBH, Vaughan would be better served playing hard cricket in Div 1 than playing against some very ordinary attacks in Div 2. The cream (ie Cent Cont players) should play at the highest level possible. Vaughan at Notts (lets say) would be interesting.

 

[GIMH]

As much as I dont like the ideas out of principle, I cant think of a good reason against them.

Here goes. Lets start with 3 facts.

There are 2 divisions in County Championship
1 Overseas player is allowed per team
Centrally contracted players are employed by ECB who dictate when they play.

Now lets make a few suggestions that are small tweaks that would likely have beneficial effects on the standard of play but may change the nature of the FC competition.

2 Overseas players in Div 1- Improve the standard and offers the best competition possible for top tier English players

No overseas players in Div 2- Stops money being taken outside the English game and keeps more spaces and game time for English players and fringe players from Div 1 teams on loan.

and perhaps most controversially

Have Centrally Contracted players play exclusively in Div 1- If their County isnt there then the ECB loans them to a predetermined Div 1 team for the season. It keeps the best players playing at the highest level (what is the point of a supposed elite cricketer slumming it in Div 2) and further improves the standard of Div 1. The stronger the better in preparation for International cricket.

A combination of all 3 would (hopefully) improve the standard of play at the top level and kep expenses down in the lower division (due to lack of overseas players and loans) as well as widening the English player base.

Now Im not proposing these ideas. Just throwing them out there to keep us on our toes.

Very interesting. Think these are really good ideas, like you I can't think of too much against them. One thing, though, the centrally contracted one is a tricky one, as for example I can't for one minute believe that Lancs would have had any threat of relegation this season had Flintoff and Anderson played the whole season. So if your proposals were taken on and we did succumb to relegation (which I don't think we will now) we would in effect be penalised twice. Relegated because a couple of our best players represented England throughout the summer, and then because of this relegation we then lose those players, meaning attendances would drop and we would miss out on the points they would no doubt bring when in the side in early season.

What I would suggest instead is some sort of allowance for extra overseas players to replace centrally contracted players. Not sure how workable it would be, though.

Also, if division 2 was weakened to such an extent, I would seriously consider stripping it of its FC status, ooh controversial

 

[Goughy]

I can't for one minute believe that Lancs would have had any threat of relegation this season had Flintoff and Anderson played the whole season.

As far as Im conerned a County should not view a player as theirs whilst they have a central contract.

They are ECB employees that are allowed (or not) to play when the ECB decides.

A County should only consider a player 'theirs' once they no longer have a central contract. So Hoggard is back as a Yorkshire player but Vaughan isnt. He is an England player.

As long as they have a central contract then Flintoff and Anderson are not Lancashire players. They are England players allowed to play for Lancashire.

Thats my interpretation though

 

[GIMH]

You are right in many ways, and generally top-class international cricketers play for their countries way, way more than their counties/provinces/states etc. Surely it goes against your view, though, that county cricket is not just a production line for international cricketers?

I think that yeah, centrally contracted players are England players first and foremost. But they are still products of Lancashire (or whoever) and as such the county shouldn't be penalised for producing these players.

 

[Goughy]

You are right in many ways, and generally top-class international cricketers play for their countries way, way more than their counties/provinces/states etc. Surely it goes against your view, though, that county cricket is not just a production line for international cricketers?

Actualy, Id be doing it as it would make for the strongest and most competitive league possible with as much strength and depth as possible.

England benefits would be a side benefit.

My main concern is making the domestic structure as strong as possible for its own sake. If it can be improved then it should be improved. I want to see a concentrated product with all the best players playing in the same place.

But they are still products of Lancashire (or whoever) and as such the county shouldn't be penalised for producing these players.

How are they being penalised? They are not paying their wages and if they were relegated they wouldnt play against them as the players would be in Div 1. If they got promoted then they would get the players back. They would never play against these players and they have no real claim to them whilst the ECB pays the wages and chooses when and where they can play.

ECB pays the wages and as soon as they stop then they go back to their County.