KP rips into Ramps

[TheEpic]

Respect for one's colleagues, at least in the public arena, is something KP should get used to as a captain.

The whole "oh he's just telling it like it is" line doesn't work when you're the leader of your national team. It also doesn't help team morale, nor help you win cricket matches.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, I feel the need to speak up for KP here. As I believe it says in the article linked, this interview was conducted before Pietersen gained the captaincy, and so such considerations were probably not at the forefront of his mind.

 

[Richard]

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a diplomatic answer to a question like this. It's hardly out of line to refuse to answer a quesiton which calls for you to comment negatively on a fellow player. What would happen if Ramprakash did somehow find his way into the England team alongside KP in the future? Seems a tactless and unnecessary comment, regardless of the question asked.

No-one's saying Pietersen couldn't have been more diplomatic, but there's no disputing that the headline (or thread title) doesn't fit the quote and is an over-dramatisation.

 

[GIMH]

Completely agree with Faaip.

Yes we all love out there, loud mouth characters who give us something to read in the paper, rather than those that give robotic answers, but there is a time and a place for tact, and this was one of them.

What he said wasn't overly harsh, but it wasn't pleasant either. Respect for one's colleagues, at least in the public arena, is something KP should get used to as a captain.

The whole "oh he's just telling it like it is" line doesn't work when you're the leader of your national team. It also doesn't help team morale, nor help you win cricket matches.

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a diplomatic answer to a question like this. It's hardly out of line to refuse to answer a quesiton which calls for you to comment negatively on a fellow player. What would happen if Ramprakash did somehow find his way into the England team alongside KP in the future? Seems a tactless and unnecessary comment, regardless of the question asked.

I think these are fair points but once it took Ramps forever to move from 99 to 100 his last tiny hope of ever playing for England again disappeared, IMO

 

[Top_Cat]

With Jono and Faaip here. Interesting that with his phone book he was pretty protective but with Ramps, he commented on his character. Bit selective with his brutal honesty.

Although with Ramps, one could understand that..... haha

 

[Furball]

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a diplomatic answer to a question like this. It's hardly out of line to refuse to answer a quesiton which calls for you to comment negatively on a fellow player. What would happen if Ramprakash did somehow find his way into the England team alongside KP in the future? Seems a tactless and unnecessary comment, regardless of the question asked.

Michael Vaughan was still the England captain when the interview was conducted.

 

[Dasa]

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a diplomatic answer to a question like this. It's hardly out of line to refuse to answer a quesiton which calls for you to comment negatively on a fellow player. What would happen if Ramprakash did somehow find his way into the England team alongside KP in the future? Seems a tactless and unnecessary comment, regardless of the question asked.

Completely agree with Faaip.

Yes we all love out there, loud mouth characters who give us something to read in the paper, rather than those that give robotic answers, but there is a time and a place for tact, and this was one of them.

What he said wasn't overly harsh, but it wasn't pleasant either. Respect for one's colleagues, at least in the public arena, is something KP should get used to as a captain.

The whole "oh he's just telling it like it is" line doesn't work when you're the leader of your national team. It also doesn't help team morale, nor help you win cricket matches.

Yeah, my line of thinking as well.

 

[pup11]

I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a diplomatic answer to a question like this. It's hardly out of line to refuse to answer a quesiton which calls for you to comment negatively on a fellow player. What would happen if Ramprakash did somehow find his way into the England team alongside KP in the future? Seems a tactless and unnecessary comment, regardless of the question asked.

Yep, i agree with this KP is not just an English player anymore he is also the leader of the English side, a job that comes with its own set of responsibilities, so he should be careful about the kind of word he uses.

Ramps might be choker or whatever, but why should he question a man' character who he hardly knows, i think he was probably trying to send a message across to the selectors that he doesn't want Ramprakash anyway near the test side, but this i am afraid is just not the way.

P.S: Having said that, i still believe the title of the thread was a way too sensationalised.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Michael Vaughan was still the England captain when the interview was conducted.

I didn't actually mention anything about KP being captain though. Doesn't have all that much to do with it IMO, it's just not a good thing to say about someone you might be playing with. I honestly don't think you'd see a senior Australian player commenting negatively on the mental capabilities of someone considered a potential selection for the team. And if you did, it'd be considered a pretty big deal.

Again, yeah, he's being a straight shooter and all that, but there's a time and a place and this is just a bit uncalled for.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I didn't actually mention anything about KP being captain though. Doesn't have all that much to do with it IMO, it's just not a good thing to say about someone you might be playing with. I honestly don't think you'd see a senior Australian player commenting negatively on the mental capabilities of someone considered a potential selection for the team. And if you did, it'd be considered a pretty big deal.

Again, yeah, he's being a straight shooter and all that, but there's a time and a place and this is just a bit uncalled for.

It's a question of personal preference at the end of the day. Myself, I'd prefer a bloke to be upfront about it rather than just mutter the usual bland inanities we get from sportsmen after they've been through the media-awareness meat-grinder. At the very least it's better copy than "Great player, tremendous achievement, don't know why he never made the leap to test success".

It's not necessarily better or worse, but there is maybe a case to be said that if someone in or around Team Oz had said something publicly about Symonds's alleged issues (which seem to go back quite a long time, as has subsequently come to light) he might still be touring India. Or he could've equally spat the dummy completely, I suppose.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's a question of personal preference at the end of the day. Myself, I'd prefer a bloke to be upfront about it rather than just mutter the usual bland inanities we get from sportsmen after they've been through the media-awareness meat-grinder. At the very least it's better copy than "Great player, tremendous achievement, don't know why he never made the leap to test success".

It's not necessarily better or worse, but there is maybe a case to be said that if someone in or around Team Oz had said something publicly about Symonds's alleged issues (which seem to go back quite a long time, as has subsequently come to light) he might still be touring India. Or he could've equally spat the dummy completely, I suppose.

Just not the way the Aussie teams work, though. Throughout the 90's, everyone in the Aussie set-up, in the height of the 'give Matt a bat' hysteria, didn't rate him all that highly as a player and I can guarantee to you that Slats and Taylor were pretty damning, their criticism along the lines of that meted out to Ramps (although as it was one of their spots he wanted, I guess we shouldn't be all that surprised). There was a time when many thought he wasn't going to play Test cricket again after about 1999. Considering the fact he made the side again and has excelled, imagine if he was bagged publicly. Imagine, if you will, the mileage opposition teams would have gotten out of the Warne-Waugh-Buchanan distaste for one another if that was public? Aussie teams have gotten by with less strong teams by always trying too appear to be a cohesive unit, that even if the team appears weaker on paper than their opposition, by virtue of team solidarity, you're in for a contest. This sort of thing works in opposition to that aim.

I guess, considering that Ramps is now highly unlikely to make the Test side again, the damage is minimal. Still, being a straight-shooter is one thing, this seems more like having a dig at Ramps.

 

[NZTailender]

Haha, this is KP ripping into someone? Would hate to see him if you stood on his foot and ate his last Kit-Kat...

 

[BoyBrumby]

Just not the way the Aussie teams work, though. Throughout the 90's, everyone in the Aussie set-up, in the height of the 'give Matt a bat' hysteria, didn't rate him all that highly as a player and I can guarantee to you that Slats and Taylor were pretty damning, their criticism along the lines of that meted out to Ramps (although as it was one of their spots he wanted, I guess we shouldn't be all that surprised). There was a time when many thought he wasn't going to play Test cricket again after about 1999. Considering the fact he made the side again and has excelled, imagine if he was bagged publicly. Imagine, if you will, the mileage opposition teams would have gotten out of the Warne-Waugh-Buchanan distaste for one another if that was public? Aussie teams have gotten by with less strong teams by always trying too appear to be a cohesive unit, that even if the team appears weaker on paper than their opposition, by virtue of team solidarity, you're in for a contest. This sort of thing works in opposition to that aim.

I guess, considering that Ramps is now highly unlikely to make the Test side again, the damage is minimal. Still, being a straight-shooter is one thing, this seems more like having a dig at Ramps.

Yeah, I can see your point. There was an awful lot of hoo-ha about Warne's alleged remarks about Scotty Muller ("Can't bowl, can't throw" or something) that were picked up on a stump-mike & then passed off as Joe the Cameraman's work.

I guess we (the English) are more open about our team's mutual distaste for each other. Or, at least, it gets reported more often. Gough & Caddick's barely cordial relationship was well known and had an amusing coda on Cricket AM (magazine prog on Sky up here) recently when they were both guests and their digs at each other were barely hidden by their forced jocularity.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah but again, there's a bit of a difference in my mind between not getting along with someone (it was fairly common knowledge that Warne and Gilchrist were pretty different sorts of people, for example) and actually criticising someone as a player by suggesting that they are mentally weak. I just see it as having only negative consequences for the team. You don't have to be best friends but you should be encouraging one another to play good cricket.

By all means, be honest and avoid bull****ting to the media, but is it really necessary to have a go at someone you might be playing with? Just say that you aren't interested in speculating on the issue and move on.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah but again, there's a bit of a difference in my mind between not getting along with someone (it was fairly common knowledge that Warne and Gilchrist were pretty different sorts of people, for example) and actually criticising someone as a player by suggesting that they are mentally weak. I just see it as having only negative consequences for the team. You don't have to be best friends but you should be encouraging one another to play good cricket.

By all means, be honest and avoid bull****ting to the media, but is it really necessary to have a go at someone you might be playing with? Just say that you aren't interested in speculating on the issue and move on.

Well if something's in the public domain anyway there's an argument that says any potential mileage will be made by the media/oppo regardless.

I think public criticism of team mates (or even potential ones) is regarded as a sacred cow for no particular reason, I mean Warne even went as far as denying the Muller remarks when it was generally accepted he didn't rate him anyway.

 

[Xuhaib]

Haha...what's up with this over sensationalized thread title talk, I though it was poor form of KP to question a fellow cricketers character in public and whats more he goes on to say he doesn't even know him well.

 

[Richard]

So what's wrong with "KP questions Ramps' pressure-handling skills" or similar? Because that'd be a much more accurate description of what's contained TBH.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, I can see your point. There was an awful lot of hoo-ha about Warne's alleged remarks about Scotty Muller ("Can't bowl, can't throw" or something) that were picked up on a stump-mike & then passed off as Joe the Cameraman's work.

No firm evidence to show for sure either way. Conspiracists generally prefer to believe it was Warne; those who want to avoid unneccessary fuss prefer to believe it was Joe.

 

[honestbharani]

tasteless..

 

[Xuhaib]

So what's wrong with "KP questions Ramps' pressure-handling skills" or similar? Because that'd be a much more accurate description of what's contained TBH.

OK fair enough!

Next time when I will make a thread on any topic I will make sure that I take your advice beforehand on how should that thread be tittled.

 

[Richard]

It's hardly like it was just me who was saying the title over-sensationised it, is it?

I just hate it when people's words are cooked-up to be something they weren't, and someone like Pietersen is bound to suffer from it more than most as he already has. EG, the "Brett Lee tried to kill me" thing. Some people can really do without it, they've got enough on their plates. Nasser Hussain said he suffered for his whole career because someone cooked-up Graham Gooch taking him for a quiet walk and advising him that a course of action wasn't the best into "getting a roasting from the England captain for hotheadedness". It's surprising how serious ramifications can be from time to time. I know it's not particularly applicable to this case as I doubt either Ramprakash or Pietersen read CW.n, but say someone prints this as a headline in some paper, then Ramprakash does get back in the England set-up. Pietersen's words were ill-advised, and with someone cooking them up as something far more than they were, this disrupts team harmony further still than would otherwise have been the case.