Can SA topple Australia ?

[JimmyGS]

I think Vettori is rather underrated because his stats really don't make one sit-up and take notice, imo had he been playing for a sub-continental side one could have expected him to have much better stats then he has now in both forms of the game, lets be fair to him, New Zealand hardly play much test cricket and on top of that whenever they play at home they prepare a green pitch where a cattle can be grazed or they make a predominantly fast-bowler friendly track.

Even with all that he has held his own in international cricket, the best left-arm spinner in both forms the game for me.

And I remember hearing somewhere that his batting average over the last 3 years is in the 50s? Is that true?

 

[Richard]

Not quite, but his batting record between May 2003 and May 2008 was extremely impressive, averaging just 0.14 under 40 against Test-class teams.

 

[fatbury]

From what I saw of SA in England this season I have no reason to believe in anything but a large Australian victory .. they look jaded

 

[Uppercut]

From what I saw of SA in England this season I have no reason to believe in anything but a large Australian victory .. they look jaded

I thought they were reasonably impressive, winning the series with a game to spare- unless you're referring to the ODI side.

 

[Jakester1288]

Vettori is under-rated with the bat in my opinion. He can hang around, and make a good amount of runs, especially for a tail ender. A few months back, I included him in my World Test XI, as the second spinner and a bowling allrounder who bats at number 7 - that's how much I rate him with the bat.

New Zealand can't afford to do that, because they need to name the extra batsmen, because they struggle as a side with the bat. Their bowling is generally alright, but batting is dire, definitely not up to standard in Test Matches, and won't be able to compete with quality sides such as Australia, South Africa and India, not to mention Sri Lanka and even Pakistan.

 

[Langeveldt]

I thought they were reasonably impressive, winning the series with a game to spare- unless you're referring to the ODI side.

Still mainly the same cricketers to be honest..

 

[Uppercut]

Still mainly the same cricketers to be honest..

Yeah, but players like Kallis, Prince, Amla, Steyn, Harris, McKenzie, M Morkel are all much better test players than ODI players. In fact, the whole team is, bar Smith and just maybe De Villiers (but i wouldn't say so).

 

[Rickripper]

Yeah, but players like Kallis, Prince, Amla, Steyn, Harris, McKenzie, M Morkel are all much better test players than ODI players. In fact, the whole team is, bar Smith and just maybe De Villiers (but i wouldn't say so).

I agree, they're a much better test team than ODI side. But still, they only just beat an England side whose batting order had a fondness of collapsing whenever they looked like they might be doing pretty well. And they did register 2 or 3 scores of less than 300 in the series.

Saying that, England probably have a more potent bowling attack than Australia do these days, so it will all be down to whether or not they can bowl out Australia twice. Ntini and Steyn have to be in form. Kallis will always take a couple, and Morkel is maturing quickly. I don't think Nel can force his way into that side really, he hasn't looked too good for a while, he was useless for Essex earlier in the season.

 

[Uppercut]

I agree, they're a much better test team than ODI side. But still, they only just beat an England side whose batting order had a fondness of collapsing whenever they looked like they might be doing pretty well. And they did register 2 or 3 scores of less than 300 in the series.

They bowled shockingly at Lord's, then batted their way out of a hole. At Headingley they outplayed England in every sense of the word. Edgebaston was a mighty close run thing, but coming through it shows a trait that post-admission SA have tended to lack- balls. The hangover test i'm not looking much into.

I'd conclude, from that and from the series in India, that they're still well behind Australia, particularly playing away. But not quite as far behind as India, who are on the decline while SA are ascending. That's what i think anyway, it's quite hard to say...

 

[pup11]

Not quite, but his batting record between May 2003 and May 2008 was extremely impressive, averaging just 0.14 under 40 against Test-class teams.

So its fair to say that Vettori is one of the better batsmen for the Black Caps over the last 5 years in test cricket, now that's a pretty good effort on Vettori' part.

 

[JimmyGS]

So its fair to say that Vettori is one of the better batsmen for the Black Caps over the last 5 years in test cricket, now that's a pretty good effort on Vettori' part.

Exactly. Coincidentally I'm halfway through his autobiography at the moment. Not such a good read I must admit, but he does mention that he started working on his batting a lot more around then.

 

[Polo23]

So its fair to say that Vettori is one of the better batsmen for the Black Caps over the last 5 years in test cricket, now that's a pretty good effort on Vettori' part.

He has been our best batsman in the last 3-4 years without a doubt.

 

[sanga1337]

He has been our best batsman in the last 3-4 years without a doubt.

Not as good as Fleming, but he's definitely been one of the top batsman for New Zealand in that time period IMO.

 

[Polo23]

Not as good as Fleming, but he's definitely been one of the top batsman for New Zealand in that time period IMO.

You are right...Fleming was superb in his last 4-5 years, averaging around 45.

Vettori has easily been our second best bat then.

 

[Richard]

I agree, they're a much better test team than ODI side. But still, they only just beat an England side whose batting order had a fondness of collapsing whenever they looked like they might be doing pretty well. And they did register 2 or 3 scores of less than 300 in the series.

Saying that, England probably have a more potent bowling attack than Australia do these days, so it will all be down to whether or not they can bowl out Australia twice. Ntini and Steyn have to be in form. Kallis will always take a couple, and Morkel is maturing quickly. I don't think Nel can force his way into that side really, he hasn't looked too good for a while, he was useless for Essex earlier in the season.

He was hardly useless, it's not like he averaged 60 or 70.