Kaif , Ganguly or Badrinath - India's no 6 batsman for the Australia series

[choker_fan]

aussies dont have a power packed batting order

so pick badrinath and 4 bowlers can do the job and bhajji himself is too gud this time around

 

[adharcric]

Badrinath and Kaif might be ok players and ready for the opportunity, but they'll be playing for their future and could play into Australia's hands by simply playing out the lesser bowlers thereby giving Lee and Clarke time to rest

Ganguly isn't playing for his future?

 

[adharcric]

Australia's biggest threats will be the opening bowlers, it's easy from there. We need an opener who'll just stick it out, even if no runs are scored. If we can get through the first fifteen, it becomes much easier as Aussies lack their usual depth.

Aakash Chopra FTW. After that, our middle order can tonk it. The biggest worry for us in this series is if the Aussie opening attack takes 2-3 wickets every time they get the ball, and our middle order will be on the backfoot and won't be able to attack the spinner and the other bowler.

Sure, but you simply can't drop Gambhir right now. He looked solid in Sri Lanka and even if that was against a crap pace attack and not Lee, Clark and co, you have to go with him here. Besides, Chopra seems to have fallen behind Jaffer, Uthappa, Dhawan and even Rahane - this time, it definitely looks like it's curtains for Chopra. Pathetic.

 

[adharcric]

Dohni at 6. Laxman at 3, Pathan at 7. Best way to go about things. Cause if the openers can survive the Lee and Clark attack, and set up the innings, they won't need an extra batsmen, they need more bowlers to dismiss the Aussies.

Going by the recent fragility of India's middle order, they'll need that extra batsman. Pathan probably isn't much of a threat against the Australian batsmen in India anyways, might as well use Sehwag or Sourav/Sachin/Badri for that role.

 

[adharcric]

Kaif for me, Badrinath as backup ... I'm not sure if Ganguly should have been dropped just yet, but that looks like the direction the selectors have taken.

 

[Jakester1288]

aussies dont have a power packed batting order

so pick badrinath and 4 bowlers can do the job and bhajji himself is too gud this time around

Well, in a sense they do, because when you've got Hayden, Jaques, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Katich/Watson and Haddin, you have got quite the batting order. I would still argue that it is one of the best in the world, if not the best. They will need more than Harbhajan and Kumble to dismiss that outfit. Considering Sharma is the only decent pace bowler going around there these days, they will need another decent bowler, and I think R.P Singh and Pathan will fill this role perfectly. They are well balanced with Pathan in the side, they are really well rounded off.

Oh, and welcome to CricketWeb mate.

 

[Richard]

Dohni at 6. Laxman at 3, Pathan at 7. Best way to go about things. Cause if the openers can survive the Lee and Clark attack, and set up the innings, they won't need an extra batsmen, they need more bowlers to dismiss the Aussies.

Irfan Pathan's likely to help dismiss Australia?

What does he average against them again? Isn't it something like 70?

You might as well use Tendulkar or Ganguly or Sehwag as the extra bowler. Badrinath's a semi-capable spinner too isn't he?

EDIT: pretty much as Akhil said.

 

[Woodster]

The make up of the Indian team will be interesting. For me if they play the extra bowler, in this case Irfan Pathan, and he comes in at 7, that puts big pressure on the recently failing middle order. Australia will certainly feel they have a sniff of finishing them off when they are 5 wickets down with Pathan strolling out. Not strong enough batting depth for me.

Should they play the extra batsman, for arguments sake Kaif at six, Dhoni at 7, then a bowling attack presumably consisting of Harbhajan, Kumble, Sharma and Zaheer/RP, seems a little light without the medium pace swing of Ganguly. Of course there are plenty of part time spinners to give the main attack a rest, but there will be a lot of pressure on young Ishant, who while impressive is still very inexperienced, and one of only two quicker bowlers in the side. It would be like England selecting Broad in a two man seam attack, of which I would be very nervous about.

I think India should go with the extra batsman and try and put the Aussies under pressure with big runs on the board.

 

[ret]

if one is playing the extra batsman to give cushion to the middle order than i don't know how much can Kaif or Badri make up for the middle order batting failures .... most often than not when the middle order fails, whatever the extra batsman can salvage would not be enough anyways .... I can't see how a 50 odd from Kaif or Badri batting at number 6 is going to help, if some of the others in the middle order fail to deliver

a bowling all-rounder or an extra bowler in this case helps, if he manages to give crucial break-through, by restricting the opposition .... and make no mistake about the fact that Australia has a good batting line up

I can't see how Pathan batting won't be any useful than one of the struggling batsmen's and his bowling helps and the fact that he was the MoM when India beat Australia at Perth. Let's not forget that he did better with the bat than most of the specialist batsmen on a green pitch at A'bad. And if he is out of form with both the bat and the ball and if the pitch is not bowling friendly then pick an extra bowler

We even got to see at Chennai how handicapped India was without an extra bowler and most of the batting didn't even deliver on a flat pitch. if Sehwag hadn't got that triple, Ind would have struggled to draw that game, mainly because of loading the line up with useless batsmen and the bowling lacking teeth for the lack of options

Another reason to play an extra bowler is the fact that Kumble's graph is going down as a bowler and he would not be dropped being the captain. Unless the pitch explodes, he could be restrictive at the best which would mean that India would be going in with 3 bowlers and a restrictive option [on top of loading the line up with useless batsmen]

it could be a big blunder on India's part if it selected out of form batsmen, extended the batting line to give cushion to the failing batting order and fielded a not so adequate bowling attack to take on the strong Australian batting line up

 

[social]

Ganguly isn't playing for his future?

All will be under pressure but Kaif and Badrinath are not attacking batsmen whereas Ganguly is

 

[Woodster]

if one is playing the extra batsman to give cushion to the middle order than i don't know how much can Kaif or Badri make up for the middle order batting failures .... most often than not when the middle order fails, whatever the extra batsman can salvage would not be enough anyways .... I can't see how a 50 odd from Kaif or Badri batting at number 6 is going to help, if some of the others in the middle order fail to deliver

a bowling all-rounder or an extra bowler in this case helps, if he manages to give crucial break-through, by restricting the opposition .... and make no mistake about the fact that Australia has a good batting line up

Well obviously put like that, when you take the positive view of an extra bowler, being able to restrict Australia and make crucial breakthroughs (I can counter by saying, if the main bowlers can't keep them quiet and get the breakthroughs, then why should the extra bowler ?).

Also, how can you say the number 6 will only make 50 odd maximum, why can't he make a real impact and get a 100 ?

Easy to make the assumptions to fit your argument. but there has been 8 centuries made by India's number 6 in the last 5 years, Mohammad Kaif making one of them.

 

[Woodster]

it could be a big blunder on India's part if it selected out of form batsmen, extended the batting line to give cushion to the failing batting order and fielded a not so adequate bowling attack to take on the strong Australian batting line up

If they are planning on picking out of form players it does not bode well. There is nor eason they will pick an out of form batsman ? But yes, that may be a mistake if the batsman has no impact, when a bowler could have done that but bowled as well, obviously.

A better idea may be to select a batsman that is in some semblance of form.

 

[pup11]

Ganguly is the last batsman India should have dropped for this series, he is brilliant against spin and a batsman like him could have shattered the confidence of a rookie spinner like McGain, but its now more or less clear he would not play any part in this series so in that case Badrinath is my pick to take his place in the team.

 

[SJS]

Anyone who is familiar with indian domestic cricket knows how abysmal the standards are in majority of the games. Thus the only decent opposition for first class games are available from the limited opportunities against the visiting Test sides and to a leser extent against the 'A' teams of the Test sides. If one looks at these, you find that kaif has the most consistent record of all Indian batsmen in these games since the season of 2004-05. Have a look.

2005	Mar	PAK	49 not out
2006	Mar	ENG	119 not out
2007	Sep	SAF A	0
2008	Feb	ENG A	64
2008	Feb	ENG A	42
2008	Sep	AUS A	94

This has to be considered alongwith his past performances for the senior side and then his good form in the domestic cricket. He is the leading contender.

Here is how the others have performed in these games.
Badrinath :

2006	Feb	ENG	0
2007	Sep	SAF A	200 not out
2008	Sep	AUS A	10

Gambhir :

2004	Nov	SAF	26
2006	Feb	ENG	22 not out
2006	Feb	ENG	108
2006	Mar	ENG	5

Raina :

2006	Feb	ENG	62
2006	Feb	ENG	6
2006	Mar	ENG	49

Uthappa :

2005	Nov	SRL	76
2006	Feb	ENG	19
2006	Feb	ENG	4

Venugopal :

2004	Nov	SAF	29
2005	Nov	SRL	46
2006	Mar	ENG	14
2006	Feb	ENG	25

Jaffer :

2004	Oct	AUS	48
2006	Feb	ENG	48
2006	Feb	ENG	4
2008	Feb	ENG A	151

 

[Arjun]

Badrinath, definitely. He's had a superb record for India A, and looks the complete player. Very effective on the field, smart between the wickets and a smart player overall. Kaif, to be honest, isn't a big-innings player and wouldn't be suited for Test cricket. Ganguly's had it, and there's nothing they can get by bringing him back.

 

[Arjun]

That said, the Indians surely need a fifth bowler. Their bowling attack, with only four bowlers, is not strong enough to take 20 wickets consistently anywhere. Moreover, the bowlers get overworked once too often, and a few get injured or carry injuries throughout the series. Irfan struggling for form is disappointing, but someone has to do the job. If the Indians choose not to play five bowlers, they can have a batsman to play as a fifth bowler.

Of the top six, only Sehwag really enjoys bowling, but that's about it, and we don't know if any will last more than six overs an innings. A 'joker' option like Rajat Bhatia or Abhishek Nayar is also worth a try as both are very capable batsmen (good enough for number six in this order) and can contribute more than a few overs- enough to give the main bowlers a rest. The idea is not so much to outperform the top four bowlers, but to support them and add to the wickets tally.

When you have a batting lineup so strong (and also a bowling lineup so weak), you can take a chance with an all-rounder or a fifth bowler, but you need to have Irfan back in form. Moreover, Harbhajan and Zaheer are quite good with the bat, on their day, and need to put their batting skills to some use. Bowlers like Amit Mishra, Piyush Chawla and Praveen Kumar are still young and raw, and can score a few runs in addition to taking those wickets. Rather than be so cautious that they can't strike, the Indian team needs to be stretched a little, and these prospects need to be given a few chances.

 

[ret]

Well obviously put like that, when you take the positive view of an extra bowler, being able to restrict Australia and make crucial breakthroughs (I can counter by saying, if the main bowlers can't keep them quiet and get the breakthroughs, then why should the extra bowler ?).

Also, how can you say the number 6 will only make 50 odd maximum, why can't he make a real impact and get a 100 ?

Easy to make the assumptions to fit your argument. but there has been 8 centuries made by India's number 6 in the last 5 years, Mohammad Kaif making one of them.

First, you need to understand that by playing someone like Kaif, Ganguly or Badri at #6, India is in fact playing 7 batsmen with Dhoni coming at #7. If India plays a bowling all-rounder or an extra bowler then it still has someone like Dhoni coming in at 6. Dhoni is capable of hitting a 100 so I don't see your point in running up stats on the batsman batting at #6 !!!! .... The relevant stats is what the 7th batsman has done and not the stats

2nd, simple math will tell you that if you are boosting your bowling attack from 4 to 5 then thats an increase of 25% .... on the other hand, if you are boosting your batting from 6 to 7, then it's around 15%

3rd, if the conditions are NOT bowler friendly then that boost of around 15% in batting is not that substantial compared to the boost of 25% in bowling

4th, the 4 men bowling attack needs extra boost because someone like Kumble is not going to cause much trouble unless the pitch is exploding

If they are planning on picking out of form players it does not bode well. There is nor eason they will pick an out of form batsman ? But yes, that may be a mistake if the batsman has no impact, when a bowler could have done that but bowled as well, obviously.

A better idea may be to select a batsman that is in some semblance of form.

If you had followed the last two or three test series then you would know that India has been fielding dud batsmen in its line up. The middle order has even collapsed in perfectly good batting conditions

Playing a batsman that is in some semblance of form is a bad idea too. I don't understand why India has to play someone who is in semblance of form when it can play someone who is in decent form. In my book, test cricket is not a place where you play people to get into form and then wait pathetically for him to strike form, along with consoling every time that someone fails by saying he is just one inning away from coming back big time

 

[Richard]

All will be under pressure but Kaif and Badrinath are not attacking batsmen whereas Ganguly is

Kaif is certainly more than capable of playing plenty of strokes - and I only imagine that's improved in the last year-or-however-long-it-is. Badrinath I'm not sure about as I've never examined his case closely.

 

[kingkallis]

Kaif is averaging 60+ in last couple of tests he played! We have to keep 1 more thing in mind that he was given the chance only when someone was injured so that makes his performance even better!

 

[kingkallis]

Last 10 innings of Kaif

9 17 16 0 1 56.25 6 lbw 3 v Sri Lanka Ahmedabad 18 Dec 2005 Test # 1778
91 361 263 12 0 34.60 6 bowled 2 v England Nagpur 1 Mar 2006 Test # 1785
DNB - - - - - - - 4 v England Nagpur 1 Mar 2006 Test # 1785
13 50 38 2 0 34.21 6 caught 1 v West Indies St John's 2 Jun 2006 Test # 1805
46* 125 86 6 0 53.48 6 not out 3 v West Indies St John's 2 Jun 2006 Test # 1805
148* - 243 12 0 60.90 6 not out 1 v West Indies Gros Islet 10 Jun 2006 Test # 1806
0 - 2 0 0 0.00 6 lbw 2 v West Indies Basseterre 22 Jun 2006 Test # 1807
DNB - - - - - - - 4 v West Indies Basseterre 22 Jun 2006 Test # 1807
13 31 25 2 0 52.00 6 caught 1 v West Indies Kingston 30 Jun 2006 Test # 1808
6 22 15 1 0 40.00 6 bowled 3 v West Indies Kingston 30 Jun 2006 Test # 1808