***Official England in India***

[pup11]

Forgot what Freddie did with the willow back in 06 haven't you?

F.L.U.K.E.

 

[morgieb]

T'was Mendis. And for India, there is a series in between against the relatively easy Australia to really ascertain whether the 2-1 loss was the start of a slide or just a blip.

It actually could be rather easy, as Australia have no spinners.

 

[Precambrian]

F.L.U.K.E.

Here's the break- up of scores :

Nagpur

1st Innings ---------- 43 (70)
2nd Innings --------- Did not bat

Mohali

1st Innings ---------- 70 (123)
2nd Innings --------- 51 (106)

Mumbai

1st Innings --------- 50 (85)
2ns Innings -------- 50 (146)

Wow! Had it been one big score and then all low scores, then it could have been dismissed as Fluke. This is no fluke. Especially, that innings in BOLD, shows that he can knuckle down and play a defensive innings (which proved to be matchwinning).

 

[Precambrian]

Another point to be noted is that, Flintoff was hardly sitting duck against spinners. This is shown by his record against spinners in the last tour of India.

[B]Bowler	 Runs	Balls	Dismissals  Avg/ Dis	S/R[/B]
[B]H Singh[/B]	 56	122	  0	     Nil	45.9%
[B]A Kumble[/B] 93	193	  3	     31	        48.2%
[B]P Chawla[/B] 17	19	  1	     17	        89.5%
					
[B]TOTAL	 166	334	  4	     41.5	49.7%[/B]

He's been effective in negating the effect of spinners as well as scoring runs. He scored 62% of his total runs against spinners. Perhaps it could be F.L.U.K.E this time, Flintoff Likes it Under Kevin for England

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'll hazard a guess at our squad. I think 10 of the 11 who played at The Oval plus Prior are locks unless any go down with injuries, so the debate is regarding who'll travel with them. I'll work on the assumption of a 16-man party.

I think Shah must, in all equity, travel with the squad. He's been knocking on the door for what seems like an age and did rather well on our last tour so he's in. If fit, Sidebottom should go too. He has a central contract and has been our best bowler for over a year until his back issues reduced his pace and fitness.

I imagine a reserve spinner will be taken as cover for Monty & Swann is the stand-out option here, tidy & useful with the bat.

Reserve keeper (I assuming here Prior will once again be first pick) is a bit of a crap-shoot, frankly. Ambrose has been the man in possession, but hasn't really convinced with the bat & his keeping, whilst decent, isn't so sublime as to compensate. Mustard toured NZ in the test sqaud, but still think he's primarily reagarded as an limited-overs specialist, so I'd personally go with Foster at Essex. Has played tests in India before, serviceable batsman & good keeper to boot.

That leaves one spot & it has to be Samit Patel for my money. Another seamer would be a luxary in India, Vaughan can hardly buy a run for Yorkshire & Sammy can potentially bat top six as well as being a half-decent second spinning option.

So

Cook
Srauss
Bell
Pietersen*
Colingwood
Shah
Patel

Flintoff

Prior+
Foster+

Broad
Harmison
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar
Swann

 

[pskov]

I'd have the same squad, but with Bopara ahead of Patel. I think the selectors clearly rate Ravi highly and he is a dead cert to tour, even though it is unlikely he will play a test.

 

[GIMH]

Test squad announcement delayed basically to give Vaughan time to get in form

 

[pup11]

I'll hazard a guess at our squad. I think 10 of the 11 who played at The Oval plus Prior are locks unless any go down with injuries, so the debate is regarding who'll travel with them. I'll work on the assumption of a 16-man party.

I think Shah must, in all equity, travel with the squad. He's been knocking on the door for what seems like an age and did rather well on our last tour so he's in. If fit, Sidebottom should go too. He has a central contract and has been our best bowler for over a year until his back issues reduced his pace and fitness.

I imagine a reserve spinner will be taken as cover for Monty & Swann is the stand-out option here, tidy & useful with the bat.

Reserve keeper (I assuming here Prior will once again be first pick) is a bit of a crap-shoot, frankly. Ambrose has been the man in possession, but hasn't really convinced with the bat & his keeping, whilst decent, isn't so sublime as to compensate. Mustard toured NZ in the test sqaud, but still think he's primarily reagarded as an limited-overs specialist, so I'd personally go with Foster at Essex. Has played tests in India before, serviceable batsman & good keeper to boot.

That leaves one spot & it has to be Samit Patel for my money. Another seamer would be a luxary in India, Vaughan can hardly buy a run for Yorkshire & Sammy can potentially bat top six as well as being a half-decent second spinning option.

So

Cook
Srauss ---------> is he new in the team, never heard of him before.
Bell
Pietersen*
Colingwood
Shah -------------> I would rather have Rob Key in his place.
Patel

Flintoff

Prior+
Foster+

Broad
Harmison
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar
Swann

Rest of the team looks fine, but i would seriously consider playing Foster ahead Prior in the playing XI, and also think of selecting Tremlett or Hoggard instead of Swann.

 

[pup11]

Test squad announcement delayed basically to give Vaughan time to get in form

Don't worry that's never gonna happen, unless Vaughan decides to bribe the bowlers into bowling poorly to him.

 

[Richard]

Test squad announcement delayed basically to give Vaughan time to get in form

That's fair enough, but it'll look pretty bad if it doesn't happen, which is looking more likely by the innings.

 

[Precambrian]

Test squad announcement delayed basically to give Vaughan time to get in form

I'd say, he doesn't deserve a test spot as much with his performances of last 5 years!!! What's he going to conjure up in a few days?

Belly still for me.

 

[Richard]

Forgot what Freddie did with the willow back in 06 haven't you?

F.L.U.K.E.

Here's the break- up of scores :

Nagpur

1st Innings ---------- 43 (70)
2nd Innings --------- Did not bat

Mohali

1st Innings ---------- 70 (123)
2nd Innings --------- 51 (106)

Mumbai

1st Innings --------- 50 (85)
2ns Innings -------- 50 (146)

Wow! Had it been one big score and then all low scores, then it could have been dismissed as Fluke. This is no fluke. Especially, that innings in BOLD, shows that he can knuckle down and play a defensive innings (which proved to be matchwinning).

Another point to be noted is that, Flintoff was hardly sitting duck against spinners. This is shown by his record against spinners in the last tour of India.

[B]Bowler	 Runs	Balls	Dismissals  Avg/ Dis	S/R[/B]
[B]H Singh[/B]	 56	122	  0	     Nil	45.9%
[B]A Kumble[/B] 93	193	  3	     31	        48.2%
[B]P Chawla[/B] 17	19	  1	     17	        89.5%
					
[B]TOTAL	 166	334	  4	     41.5	49.7%[/B]

He's been effective in negating the effect of spinners as well as scoring runs. He scored 62% of his total runs against spinners. Perhaps it could be F.L.U.K.E this time, Flintoff Likes it Under Kevin for England

As regards this - it's no secret that Flintoff is often poor against quality spin (and TBH, ditto against quality seam). It's also fairly obvious that his performance in 2005/06 wasn't a fluke, by any means - full credit to him, he batted far better than anyone could have expected him to (apart from in the last innings, which was a shocker - must've had 3 or 4 let-offs in 50).

In the upcoming series, I'd not be terribly surprised to see him struggle with the bat, but nor would I completely rule-out him scoring some good runs - because from time to time in his Test career, he's played above himself - well above himself. Ashes 2005 was another such example.

 

[Uppercut]

As regards this - it's no secret that Flintoff is often poor against quality spin (and TBH, ditto against quality seam). It's also fairly obvious that his performance in 2005/06 wasn't a fluke, by any means - full credit to him, he batted far better than anyone could have expected him to (apart from in the last innings, which was a shocker - must've had 3 or 4 let-offs in 50).

In the upcoming series, I'd not be terribly surprised to see him struggle with the bat, but nor would I completely rule-out him scoring some good runs - because from time to time in his Test career, he's played above himself - well above himself. Ashes 2005 was another such example.

He really is rather bad against spin these days though, especially early in his innings. It's going to take something magical for Freddie to succeed with the bat on this tour. Luckily, magic appears to be his speciality.

 

[superkingdave]

They are still seriously considering Vaughan has an option at the moment?

Honestly, one step forward 3 steps back.

 

[Precambrian]

As regards this - it's no secret that Flintoff is often poor against quality spin (and TBH, ditto against quality seam). It's also fairly obvious that his performance in 2005/06 wasn't a fluke, by any means - full credit to him, he batted far better than anyone could have expected him to (apart from in the last innings, which was a shocker - must've had 3 or 4 let-offs in 50).

In the upcoming series, I'd not be terribly surprised to see him struggle with the bat, but nor would I completely rule-out him scoring some good runs - because from time to time in his Test career, he's played above himself - well above himself. Ashes 2005 was another such example.

Funny, I'd always seen him as sort of "under achieved" his potential. Only times he rose to his true potential were like Ashes 2005, or the entire year 2005 (he took something like 60+ test wickets @ 24).

 

[Richard]

I'd say, he doesn't deserve a test spot as much with his performances of last 5 years!!! What's he going to conjure up in a few days?

It's not like Vaughan's performances have been universally poor the last 5 years. He had very fine performances in the summers of 2004 and 2007 and averages 37.14 (and that was 41.22 before this summer) when not opening the batting from 2002 onwards.

He could quite easily at any minute produce several superlative innings that would make it foolish to leave him out of the touring party. And I for one hope he does. But time is running-out.

 

[Richard]

He really is rather bad against spin these days though, especially early in his innings.

These days? He's far better now than he once was. His play on the 2001/02 tour (and that was merely the worst of the bad) was worse than a standing joke.

 

[Richard]

They are still seriously considering Vaughan has an option at the moment?

Honestly, one step forward 3 steps back.

Has it occurred to some people that taking a step back is more theory than practice? If Vaughan is among the best batsmen in the country at the current time, he should play. If he will score more than the Shahs and Patels, he should play.

The only question of relevance is will he do that - not whether it'll be perceived as a theory-only "step back".

 

[Uppercut]

These days? He's far better now than he once was. His play on the 2001/02 tour (and that was merely the worst of the bad) was worse than a standing joke.

He's also been a lot better against it at other stages in his career than he is now, though.

 

[Richard]

Funny, I'd always seen him as sort of "under achieved" his potential. Only times he rose to his true potential were like Ashes 2005, or the entire year 2005 (he took something like 60+ test wickets @ 24).

It depends whether you're talking about batting or bowling. Between 2004 and early-2006, Flintoff fully achieved his potential with the ball for mine.

But I've never rated his batting as much more than a lower-order biffer who'll make good against poor bowling and sometimes (not all that often) come good against good-quality stuff. I saw The Ashes 2005 and India in 2005/06 as him playing above himself - for which he deserves full credit - rather than any form of fulfillment. I never expected it to last, because it never has. He's had so many poor series against good bowling: India 2001/02, Sri Lanka and India 2002, Sri Lanka 2003/04, West Indies (away) 2004, South Africa 2004/05, Pakistan 2005/06, Sri Lanka 2006, Australia 2006/07, South Africa 2008. I don't see him scoring runs against good attacks as anything more than something which will be a sporadic bonus. If anyone is expecting it with any great regularity I think they're going to be disappointed.