• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Symonds sent home

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Symonds is not the most liked cricketer in the world due to some pre-set notions that a lot of people have about him, but still he is an awesome cricketer and a real asset to the Australian side, yes... he has not been disciplined enough on a few occasions, but if he can get his head straight and his priorities right then there is no reason why he can't be back as early as for the Indian tour, this incident could only make him more determined to do well.
Oh sure. But it starts with some solid introspection. He needs to completely understand where the team leadership is coming from. If he doesn't and 'falls in line' just because his career is at stake and not because he understands whats right and whats not, this will be repeated.

He needs to stop looking at things from the same perspective as he has done all along. He needs to understand that one's perspective could be completely off. Thats not an easy thing to do for some people. I suspect Symonds is one of those. I hope I am wrong for Symonds, on the field, is a delight for the fans and I am one of them.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
If you knew anything about being a boss you'd know that it's not just "do this, do that" but a big part of it is man management.
So you know so much about man management ? What would you do with your best performer who skips meetings, shows up drunk for work and involves in other un-professional activities.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think anybody is "sympathetic" about Symonds, because tbh Symmo had this coming, but the harsh bit probably lies in the way the journos have blasted him apart as if he has whacked a player from his team or something, Symonds made a mistake and the team punished him appropriately, and to Symonds' credit he accepeted the punishment without making much fuss.
I used the word 'sympathetic' for want of a more suitable one at that time hence the parenthesis. :)

As for the media, what they say is not relevant but we are bound to get our information on the event through the media and from that one can easily pick out what happened while leaving aside the media's judgement and analysis.

Thats why I have highlighted, in the articles I have quoted, whats said by Clarke, Ponting and the manager. Direct quotes. They do matter. For us and even more so for Symonds to read and try to understand.

Ponting's book has been out for so long. Surely Symond's would have read it. It is one of the severest indictments of a currently active cricketer's behaviour that I can immediately recall. How come Symonds does not seem to have realised , after three years, that he needs to look at things differently and change.

There is a serious personality issue here that needs to be looked at dispassionately. To ignore it as we have done at times in India will result in even more serious offense - as you suggested.

If we had been tougher with Harbhajan (and even Sreesanth to an extent) we may have avoided the whacked a player from his team incident.

We dont have to wait for the worst possible scenario to unfold before the leadership takes action. That is abdication of authority. Clarke and Australia needs to be complimented for being firm and not allowing bad examples to be set and go unpunished.
 
Last edited:

pup11

International Coach
So you know so much about man management ? What would you do with your best performer who skips meetings, shows up drunk for work and involves in other un-professional activities.
Btw since so much fuss is being created regarding how indisciplined Symonds is, please tell me how many teams around the world do really punish there players for partying till late between a series or sometimes even a night before the game, players like Yuvraj, Akthar have been regularly doing this sort of a thing, but they don't seem to get banned for this, neither does their integrity for their side gets questioned, just because Symonds missed a team meeting, it makes him the most indisciplined bloke in the cricketing circle, Australia could have easily covered up such an incident, like many other cricket boards , but they didn't do that so hats off to them for that.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you knew anything about being a boss you'd know that it's not just "do this, do that" but a big part of it is man management

Unfortunately, the current attitude dates back to the way CA and Steve Waugh crucified Michael Slater because he didnt fit the mould

Maybe if someone hadnt bothered talking to him and gotten him help earlier, they would've discovered he actually suffered from bipolar and things would've ended far differently

I dont know whether Symonds has a genuine problem or is just a rock-ape but I do know that sacking one of the best players in the world for a "misdemeanour" (the team's words not mine) is an absolute copout and wont achieve anything
Racist :ph34r:
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Chris Cairns was dropped in 1997 after being out until 4am the night before a test. He came back from that episode a much more mature player and less than two years later, was at the forefront of their series win in England. He took the lessons on board - it's a shame Symonds seems incapable of doing so.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Btw since so much fuss is being created regarding how indisciplined Symonds is, please tell me how many teams around the world do really punish there players for partying till late between a series or sometimes even a night before the game,
Just because other countries don't do it doesn't make Clarke's decision wrong. Yuvi and Shoaib having too much stroke with management and being above the law is an indictment on their own cricket boards. Good to see the Aussies leading the way on this.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
So you know so much about man management ? What would you do with your best performer who skips meetings, shows up drunk for work and involves in other un-professional activities.
Yeah but with talented members of any team, I don't know if you can apply such strict discipline. Symonds is an elite member of an elite team and, as in the corporate world, people who are a bit out of the box do (and should) get treated differently. We're not talking about a ubiquitous personality here; he's an immensely talented individual, with all the associated positive and negative connotations, in a team of of immensely talented individuals. The problem with having a group of immensely-talented individuals together is that you have to find a way to make them all work together and sometimes that means concessions on the whole 'everyone gets treated the same, all must be disciplined' thing. Otherwise you won't get the best out of them or the team. The person in question, however, has to make the extra effort and concessions worth it so, correspondingly, standards about their performance have to be higher. That's the downside of being the gun in any team; you have to be REALLY good to make the crap you give the team manager worth their time.

This is why I have a hard time believing this is all about discipline. Symonds is a difficult personality but concessions have been made because he's been performing. In Tests, luck aside, he's been getting better by the Test. Why bring him to heel now for the sake of a nothing ODI series against a team little better than ICC associate teams who, predictably, got annihilated in their opening game?

Insisting on everyone being exactly the same in a team rarely works long-term in my experience because, unconsciously, everyone knows it's a lie anyway. There's always heirarchies, cliques and egos. Insisting on rigid discipline and not allowing even a little for out-of-the ordinary personalities has a catch; usually the results of the team suffer. You have a team full of cookie-cutter yes-men with interchangeable personalities who know how to work within the confines of established doctrine but presented with a novel situation or series of events, struggle to adapt.

In other words, you have South Africa. :p

Running a team isn't as simple as creating a bunch of rules, telling everyone to stick with them and then kicking back as the results flow in. It's also about ensuring that blokes who require more care, if their pay-off is worth the trouble (key point), also contribute to the goals of the team. Symonds was in the wrong here and should have been sanctioned but belting him from the team completely sends a message to others; stick to the rules or be ostracised. Many, many organisational psychology studies will tell you that's a sure-fire way to ensure the team under-performs when things don't go as planned.
 
Last edited:

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
LOL @ Symonds. He was basically saying "Bangladesh na i aint got to train for that"

Good on the Aussie board though, strong discipline shown by them even for a match againts Bangladesh. Expect Symonds to go to IND, if not the board IMO would have taken it too far.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Chris Cairns was dropped in 1997 after being out until 4am the night before a test. He came back from that episode a much more mature player and less than two years later, was at the forefront of their series win in England. He took the lessons on board - it's a shame Symonds seems incapable of doing so.
It was nowhere near that simple. I know that and I don't even live in the same country. Steve Rixon's role as a man-manager was crucial. It took continuous effort not, "Chris, mate, take a break and come back when you've sorted yourself out." A coincidence that Rixon was able to coach NSW and make them the best side in Australia for years with a team full of difficult types? I think not.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
It was nowhere near that simple. I know that and I don't even live in the same country. .
It was the last in a succession of turbulent situations involving Cairns. Nowhere did I say it was "that simple".
 
Last edited:

pup11

International Coach
Just because other countries don't do it doesn't make Clarke's decision wrong. Yuvi and Shoaib having too much stroke with management and being above the law is an indictment on their own cricket boards. Good to see the Aussies leading the way on this.
Not for a single second am i saying that the decision taken by Clarke and CA is wrong, tbh it brilliant on their part to send out a message that no matter whether you are rookie or a senior and important player like Symonds, indiscipline won't be tolerated, but the general mood regarding him has been like, oh....... Symonds is this and Symonds is that, as if he is the first player ever to act in an indisciplined manner.
 

pup11

International Coach
And if it was Hayden or Symonds, they wud ve racially insulted them again and then when someone talks back, would have gone crying back to their mommies.. The CA.. who of course, will bow down again to the mighty BCCI... :laugh:
What?? Could you please elaborate.:huh:
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
It was the last in a succession of turbulent situations involving Cairns. Nowhere did I say it was "that simple".
Nice edit.

You know I think you're beautiful when you're angry but what you wrote above, whilst accurate in terms of a series of events, was more than the one incident or even the succession of incidents beforehand. Took a lot of work from Cairns and took Rixon to get the best out of him. And then, it took quite some time. Rixon himself said so;

http://content-www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/365547.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

This is a great example of what can happen with good man-managers and why the Aussie selectors and coaches would be wise to heed the example. If the NZ staff had just said to Cairns after his many indiscretions "Look, these are the rules, live by them or **** off.", I strongly suspect he would have just quit, much like Symonds is thinking about (especially since the team was struggling at the time). Instead they took the high road and it paid-off, all credit to Rixon and the management team for letting him run with it.

There's opportunity to learn from this for the Aussies and so far, they're not in my opinion. Again, though, can't stress enough that Symonds has to do his part and in terms of run-scoring, since becoming a regular member of the Test side, he's more than done his bit. This, again, is why I'm puzzled as to why they seem intent on beating him down. Yes, sometimes the riot act needs to be read but there also needs to be follow-up. Be interesting to see how the Aussie management goes about it.
 
Last edited:

pup11

International Coach
What's so funny about all that, or am i missing something, of course CA would bow down to the BCCI, whether they are right or wrong, because BCCI holds 70% of cricket's revenue market, so obviously they would bully other boards.
 

pup11

International Coach
It was the last in a succession of turbulent situations involving Cairns. Nowhere did I say it was "that simple".
Tbh, Cairnsy never came across as someone who would be a really tough bloke for a coach or captain to handle.
 

Ahmed_Tariq

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
What's so funny about all that, or am i missing something, of course CA would bow down to the BCCI, whether they are right or wrong, because BCCI holds 70% of cricket's revenue market, so obviously they would bully other boards.
It's pretty funny to see how the BCCI can control all the other cricket boards and make them do what they want.

God forbid, if what's happening in Pakistan now was happening in India, I had love to see the CA and other cricket boards refuse to play there. :laugh:
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Not sure if will go to India or not !
The Age

His manager Matt Fearon said Symonds wanted to resume playing, but was unsure whether he would be available for the Test tour of India, which departs late next month. The touring squad could be selected as early as mid-September.

"Andrew's going to take some time to reflect on what's happened," Fearon told Cricinfo.

"He's still committed to playing cricket at the highest level.

"How he goes about doing that and how it plays out I don't know. Whether it means India I don't know."

But Symonds' teammates are desperate to have him available for the high-profile Test series.

Batsman Mike Hussey said the all-rounder was missed in Saturday's win over Bangladesh in the opening one-dayer and would be invaluable in a gruelling series on the subcontinent.

"He's had success there and is a very good player of spin, and that is important," Hussey said.

Symonds' latest indiscretion disappointed his two greatest allies — captain Ricky Ponting and Michael Clarke, the acting skipper in Darwin — and they, along with coach Tim Nielsen, decided enough was enough.

The leadership group had tired of several recent incidents, which showed Symonds put himself first.​
 

Top