Guess who's back? Back Again

[Uppercut]

That's a great point, actually. Alcohol is a largely accepted (and even encouraged by some) part of sport and considered far less dangerous than other drugs when, in reality, it doesn't deserve such protection.

Does anyone else think it could have something to do with how it affects things on the park? Alcohol clearly affects players to the point where they'd only be disadvantaged if they drank before playing the game. Speed, on the other hand, would most certainly give players an advantage if they took it before playing so maybe it seems more nefarious?

I don't think sport has anything to do with it, alcohol is just more accepted in society than any other drugs- particularly in the UK, but i'm going to guess Australia is much the same?

Even countries with little problem with drinking, such as France, consider it perfectly acceptable to have a glass of wine with their evening meal. Heck, they even give it to their kids. You can't really imagine them sitting down with a little line of speed next to their plate. Indeed, alcohol is shown to have health benefits if drank in moderation.

Generally, while alcohol can completely screw up lives and careers, for most of us who drink it does neither. That's probably why it's looked upon in a better light than many other drugs, probably more than it should be, in many cases.

 

[four_or_six]

To get pissed you have to drink alcohol, which is a drug

I think we underestimate the danger of alcohol compared to other drugs to totally screw up your life, and your sports career.

That's not the point I was trying to make. Alcohol is not a banned drug in sport, therefore by using it you are not breaking rules and going to get banned.

Also, Fletcher was trying to sell a book and also shift any blame away from himself for the situation. It's hardly an unbiased view.

 

[Richard]

Surprised that you don't think it would affect team morale Rich, if Flintoff really was bingeing every night. I'd be thinking, "how can he tell me what to ****ing do when he won't even remember tonight?" etc

As I say - if he seriously was binging every night, that's big problems. Personally, once I've had just 6 or 7 drinks one night, I won't be touching the stuff again the next day. I'm always amazed anyone can do proper benders two days consecutively.

The odd binge, at the right time, here and there should do nothing to affect a captain's standing, and it's the fault of the players concerned if they hold that against the captain. No-one can ever truly be whiter than white.

 

[Richard]

Also, Fletcher was trying to sell a book and also shift any blame away from himself for the situation. It's hardly an unbiased view.

Perhaps because he thought - perhaps rightly so - that he'd taken far more blame than he deserved to for one one-off defeat?

 

[Athlai]

This guy would still find his way back into the team even if a truck hit him, he was shot several times and a rabid dog ate the remains. Honestly I can see the Headlines now

Death Doesn't Slow Speedster
Shoaib: "Brrrraaaaaiiiinnnnnsssss"

 

[Burgey]

This guy would still find his way back into the team even if a truck hit him, he was shot several times and a rabid dog ate the remains. Honestly I can see the Headlines now

Death Doesn't Slow Speedster
Shoaib: "Brrrraaaaaiiiinnnnnsssss"

He's the Rasputin of international cricket, isn't he?

 

[GIMH]

As I say - if he seriously was binging every night, that's big problems. Personally, once I've had just 6 or 7 drinks one night, I won't be touching the stuff again the next day. I'm always amazed anyone can do proper benders two days consecutively.

The odd binge, at the right time, here and there should do nothing to affect a captain's standing, and it's the fault of the players concerned if they hold that against the captain. No-one can ever truly be whiter than white.

Even if it came in the middle of a Test?

 

[Richard]

Even if it came in the middle of a Test?

That's why I said "at the right time". Clearly in the middle of a Test is unacceptable and I presume nothing came at such a time. If so it begs the question why he wasn't stripped of the captaincy on the spot.

 

[Precambrian]

That's why I said "at the right time". Clearly in the middle of a Test is unacceptable and I presume nothing came at such a time. If so it begs the question why he wasn't stripped of the captaincy on the spot.

Guess balancing up, Flintoff the player was considered more valuable than Flintoff the person.

 

[Richard]

If you're having full-on drinking sessions mid-match, you're unlikely to be all that much of a player either.

 

[Precambrian]

If you're having full-on drinking sessions mid-match, you're unlikely to be all that much of a player either.

FLETCHER MUSTA LYING THEN!

 

[Uppercut]

Guess balancing up, Flintoff the player was considered more valuable than Flintoff the person.

Flintoff's value as an influence shouldn't be understated either- he gives the entire team a lift, he really does. His supportive influence on the team- stated by pretty much everyone who's ever worked or played with him- is huge. To suggest that his personality is something you just have to put up with is a bit ridiculous, he just had a few too many, there will be literally not one player in the England team who hasn't drank too much at some stage in their life. As I said earlier, I suspect Indian society looks poorly upon such things- but over here what he did is generally considered to be insignificant.

 

[Richard]

FLETCHER MUSTA LYING THEN!

Well given that I've yet to actually read what he said happened, I won't comment on whether he's lying or whether someone else is.

 

[Precambrian]

Flintoff's value as an influence shouldn't be understated either- he gives the entire team a lift, he really does. His supportive influence on the team- stated by pretty much everyone who's ever worked or played with him- is huge. To suggest that his personality is something you just have to put up with is a bit ridiculous, he just had a few too many, there will be literally not one player in the England team who hasn't drank too much at some stage in their life. As I said earlier, I suspect Indian society looks poorly upon such things- but over here what he did is generally considered to be insignificant.

I do agree Indian society traditionally sees drinking as some sort of social evil, though things are changing fast, and my home state ranks among the biggest per capita consumers of alchohol in Asia, not that am proud of it, nor I think Sreesanth will be.

As far as individual player is concerned, it's up to him to drink or not to drink, as long as his performance is not affected or it does not affect the performance of others. Fletcher categorically stated that Flintoff had been letoff with warnings that his drinking was affecting the general composition of the team, what exactly this meant is open to speculation. It could be anything, flintoff could've bunked nets, he could've sung pink floyd during team meetings, or it could be anything, the key is that the coach was feeling that his drinking, and coupled with his stature as captain and an inspiration figure was deteriorating the team fabric.

And then came the awful Ashes series. The terrible defeat meant end of Flinty's captaincy despite him winning the CB or VB series. Vaughan became captain, but Flinty was still the inspirational figure. And the Fredalo incident occurs, which Vaughan himself said that destroyed the team's morale and held Flintoff directly responsible.

 

[Uppercut]

And then came the awful Ashes series. The terrible defeat meant end of Flinty's captaincy despite him winning the CB or VB series. Vaughan became captain, but Flinty was still the inspirational figure. And the Fredalo incident occurs, which Vaughan himself said that destroyed the team's morale and held Flintoff directly responsible.

Ah, they're just excuses. That Australian team was so good it's untrue, conducting an investigation into why England failed there was the height of arrogance. England's one-day team was poor, blaming their failure on Flintoff getting drunk is like Ireland blaming their failure to beat Australia on Woolmer's death.

Not that i mean to write them off completely, but IMO they're less significant than is made out.

 

[Precambrian]

Ah, they're just excuses. That Australian team was so good it's untrue, conducting an investigation into why England failed there was the height of arrogance. England's one-day team was poor, blaming their failure on Flintoff getting drunk is like Ireland blaming their failure to beat Australia on Woolmer's death.

Tell that to Vaughan!!!

 

[Richard]

So because Vaughan said it that makes it right?

 

[Precambrian]

So you appoint English captains for being dummies whose words can't be taken for iota of truth? And yet couch potatoes and arm-chair analysts like you and me are more believable in this regard?

 

[Richard]

Sometimes, yes, the couch does give you a far better position to analyse than the dressing-room.

You're never going to easily accept your own and your fellows' shortcomings.

 

[Precambrian]

Sometimes, yes, the couch does give you a far better position to analyse than the dressing-room.

You're never going to easily accept your own and your fellows' shortcomings.

Guess, ECB should resort to Gallup poll for next Ashes regards to strategy and selections.


I'd sig it, but I'd got better one now.