who should retire?

[ret]

Welcome to the Ignore Hell of Sanz. It is easy to get in there and tough to get out of it.

There is always the first time. Besides It is better to do some girly thing than engage in a debate with a ****head Internet Bully who tries to show off his manhood on Internet forums perhaps because of his inability to do so in real life.

ignore hell of Sanz, what a description of something that no-one cares for

haha, i wouldn't even bother going through the trouble of adding someone there. it's fun when someone goes through that

appears as if your case is more like a 30+ years old thinking that he is 16 .... grow up, miss Sanz, err Mr Sanz or whatever Sanz, not everyone here is in school to buy your points at facevalue

 

[funnygirl]

Give them one more series before the ultimatum .However time to test some new talent by rotation policy .
And i do believe that Kumble's time is over .

PS : Slightly off topic .Hell with every one's ignore lists. No need to act too smart in a discussion forum.No one is perfect here .

 

[Sanz]

Yeah, yeah....same old crap dished out by Sanz as usual.....its no wonder guys like Greg Chapell and Ric Charlesworth, left India with this sort of attitude confronting them.....if you look at reputations rather than actual performance you have no hope.

Greg Chappell left because of his own shortcomings and failure. His stint in India was a disaster from every Angle and took India to a new low. He undid everything that was done by John Wright. I dont know nough about Ric Charlesworth to make any kind of call on him. I am all for dropping Players if they don't perform consistently. In the Dravid thread (started by pasag) I called for his dropping, but to make such calls about SRT, VVS, Kumble and to some extent Ganguly is utterly ridiculous. It has no logic whatsoever apart from 'Over-reaction' to the failure in SL series.

..if your so-called star batsmen are performing, how come the team is losing tests left, right and centre and batting collapses have been the prominent feature of most of those losses . C'mon wise guy - let's hear your glorious explanation ?

You must be blind or illiterate that you can't see India's progress in Test Cricket. We may have lost here and there but overall India has been Improving in Test Cricket.

Betweem 2000-2004 - India won 20, Lost 17 W/L Ratio 1.17, Away Win/Loss Ratio .83 (10 wins 12 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio - 2.00 (10 wins, 5 Loss)

Between 2005-Now - India Won 14, Lost 10, W/L Ratio 1.40, Away Win/Loss Ratio - 1.14 (8 wins 7 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio 2.00 (6 Wins 3 Loss)

So while Home Win/Loss Ration remains same, Abroad wins have improved.

India's Batting Average between 2000-2004 - 36.07
India's Batting Average between 2005-2008 - 37.02

The point is they're not performing and there doesn't look to be any scope for improvement as shown by three years of consistent failure - therefore you implement change. Its a pretty simple equation.

Yeah not improving...That's why Tendulkar was the Highest run getter in Australia. Besides I dont have problem with change but the attitude that 'Ganguly never scored a 100 against fast bowling' blah blah..as if Kaif has been breaking records against Fast bowlers of the world.

Anyway, I'm done with this....no point talking sense into people who can't see incompetence and failure.

Yeah you are better done, because your argument do not have a ground to stand. So far you have lost all the arguments you have tried to make.

 

[pup11]

Before thinking about dropping all these guys, one should also think about the fact that there is hardly anybody who could replace them atm, likes of Sharma, Chawla, Raina, etc might show promise, but they certainly aren't ready for test cricket yet, the idea of thrusting 19-20 year old' into test cricket just isn't fair on these youngsters, they need to groomed at the FC levels for a few seasons before they are picked so that they get a hang of playing in the longer form of the game.

 

[ret]

You must be blind or illiterate that you can't see India's progress in Test Cricket. We may have lost here and there but overall India has been Improving in Test Cricket.

Betweem 2000-2004 - India won 20, Lost 17 W/L Ratio 1.17, Away Win/Loss Ratio .83 (10 wins 12 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio - 2.00 (10 wins, 5 Loss)

Between 2005-Now - India Won 14, Lost 10, W/L Ratio 1.40, Away Win/Loss Ratio - 1.14 (8 wins 7 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio 2.00 (6 Wins 3 Loss)

So while Home Win/Loss Ration remains same, Abroad wins have improved.

India's Batting Average between 2000-2004 - 36.07
India's Batting Average between 2005-2008 - 37.02

Yeah not improving...That's why Tendulkar was the Highest run getter in Australia. Besides I dont have problem with change but the attitude that 'Ganguly never scored a 100 against fast bowling' blah blah..as if Kaif has been breaking records against Fast bowlers of the world.

all you typed above has little relevance to discussion at hand as

1. the recent trend [current season] shows that there is a downward trend in India's batting performances which is a result of the players nearing the end of their cycle [so it means little when you show 2005-2008 figures and you haven't clarified what those batting averages include!!]
2. when you are looking at the downward trend it is how the players perform on the field, how their performances are relative to the opposition, whats the consistency level, etc are the criteria that comes into play and not how many youngsters have failed in the last 5 years

if you look at the 13 games that India has played outside its home turf since 2007, apart from Tendulkar, the rest [Ganguly, Dravid and to some extent Laxman] fall short. they each have just 1 100 in 11-13 tests that they have played and average in 33-42 band

most of the runs that they have got since 2007 are from the 6 tests that they played at home and further analysis of that would no doubt show that most of those runs at home were against Pak's

to summarize, the point is not if those guys are good or not, what contributions have the made in the last 5 years but that they are at the end of their cricketing life-cycle and whats the best way to go about that, if you were in their shoes would you retire or continue to go down before being shown the door

PS i know that you have added me to your ignore list but that doesn't mean that i have to ignore the crap you post. adding ppl to your ignore list only means that you can't do anything when someone shows what a muppet you are .... and if you chose to reply to this post, it would show that your ignore list has no value [unlike what you are trying to show like welcome to my hell, yeah it hell for you and no one else ]

 

[pup11]

Greg Chappell left because of his own shortcomings and failure. His stint in India was a disaster from every Angle and took India to a new low. He undid everything that was done by John Wright. I dont know nough about Ric Charlesworth to make any kind of call on him. I am all for dropping Players if they don't perform consistently. In the Dravid thread (started by pasag) I called for his dropping, but to make such calls about SRT, VVS, Kumble and to some extent Ganguly is utterly ridiculous. It has no logic whatsoever apart from 'Over-reaction' to the failure in SL series.



You must be blind or illiterate that you can't see India's progress in Test Cricket. We may have lost here and there but overall India has been Improving in Test Cricket.

Betweem 2000-2004 - India won 20, Lost 17 W/L Ratio 1.17, Away Win/Loss Ratio .83 (10 wins 12 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio - 2.00 (10 wins, 5 Loss)

Between 2005-Now - India Won 14, Lost 10, W/L Ratio 1.40, Away Win/Loss Ratio - 1.14 (8 wins 7 Loss), Home Win/Loss Ratio 2.00 (6 Wins 3 Loss)

So while Home Win/Loss Ration remains same, Abroad wins have improved.

India's Batting Average between 2000-2004 - 36.07
India's Batting Average between 2005-2008 - 37.02




Yeah not improving...That's why Tendulkar was the Highest run getter in Australia. Besides I dont have problem with change but the attitude that 'Ganguly never scored a 100 against fast bowling' blah blah..as if Kaif has been breaking records against Fast bowlers of the world.



Yeah you are better done, because your argument do not have a ground to stand. So far you have lost all the arguments you have tried to make.

Chappell was doing the exact same thing that MS Dhoni is doing now, that is bringing in more youngsters and picking a team on merit rather than by going by names.
Chappell was a great player of his time and he was dealing with some of the greats of the current generation, and there was bound to be friction, and as it happened both Ganguly and Chappell had a huge ego-clash which led to all the controversy that took place (Indian board should have been alive to such a possibility at the time they signed Chappell), tbt at the time when Ganguly was stripped of his captaincy and was then later dropped, he deserved to be dropped because his personal form hardly merited a place for him in the side, Chappell was trying to build a young team for the world cup, and he should have been a given a free hand at that and later if he would have failed then he could have been solely blamed for team' poor performance, but as it happened Ganguly was back in the Indian team without doing anything of note at the domestic level (but to his credit he performed superbly since then at the international level), and by the time the world cup arrived Chappell was stuck with more or less the same squad he started with on the first day of his job.
As for Dravid being dropped, i am not at all in favour of that, he is India' best test batsman in the last decade, he hardly had any bad patches of form during that period, but its just his bad luck that he has been hit by his worst patch of form in a period when he has been under fire from all corners, Dravid is hardly a guy who would hang on if he felt that his presence is hurting the team, he has been a great team player and he deserves to decide for himself when he wants to leave.

 

[Sanz]

Chappell was doing the exact same thing that MS Dhoni is doing now, that is bringing in more youngsters and picking a team on merit rather than by going by names.

Didn't know MS Dhoni has been showing fingers to fans, sending SMS to Journalists about Players, sending emails to everyone criticizing players, creating friction in the team by putting one player against another. Oh Please Chappell may have the best Ideas, and I have never doubted those, but his executions were really pathetic and very detrimental. By the time he left, he couldn't get along with even someone like Tendulkar.

As for picking the team on Merit, Please tell me why was Md. Kaif dropped during the England Series after scoring a match Saving 91 in First Test @ Nagpur ?

 

[Sanz]

Chappell was a great player of his time and he was dealing with some of the greats of the current generation, and there was bound to be friction, and as it happened both Ganguly and Chappell had a huge ego-clash which led to all the controversy that took place (Indian board should have been alive to such a possibility at the time they signed Chappell), tbt at the time when Ganguly was stripped of his captaincy and was then later dropped, he deserved to be dropped because his personal form hardly merited a place for him in the side, Chappell was trying to build a young team for the world cup, and he should have been a given a free hand at that and later if he would have failed then he could have been solely blamed for team' poor performance, but as it happened Ganguly was back in the Indian team without doing anything of note at the domestic level (but to his credit he performed superbly since then at the international level), and by the time the world cup arrived Chappell was stuck with more or less the same squad he started with on the first day of his job.
As for Dravid being dropped, i am not at all in favour of that, he is India' best test batsman in the last decade, he hardly had any bad patches of form during that period, but its just his bad luck that he has been hit by his worst patch of form in a period when he has been under fire from all corners, Dravid is hardly a guy who would hang on if he felt that his presence is hurting the team, he has been a great team player and he deserves to decide for himself when he wants to leave.

Chappell's greatness as a cricketer has never been questioned by me, but his performance as captain was pretty pathetic as he is the one who order his brother to bowl underarm. His record as coach has been rather ordinary pretty much every where.

His man management skills are really poor and any comparisons with Dhoni is basically mindless. There is simply NO Comparison.

 

[anoop4real]

As for picking the team on Merit, Please tell me why was Md. Kaif dropped during the England Series after scoring a match Saving 91 in First Test @ Nagpur ?

IMO the only thing that kept Md Kaif in the team was his fielding skills...... and in some of the latest matches he didnt field well too....

 

[Prince EWS]

Worst question. Players should retire when they want to - it is not their job to determine whether they are the best available: that's what the selectors are for.

 

[ret]

Worst question. Players should retire when they want to - it is not their job to determine whether they are the best available: that's what the selectors are for.

worst answer as things are not as obvious as they come across .... even Boycott's mom would know what you typed

 

[silentstriker]

Why should they retire? If you mean who should be dropped, I'd say no one right now. After the Australia series, that could change. In terms of who I think will be gone first, I think it'll be Kumble.

 

[ret]

Why should they retire?

there are quite a few reasons for some of them to retire but the primary being that they are past their best and nearing the end of their product cycle. they are likely to be dropped considering how their performance graph is going down so what should they do? face the ignominy of getting dropped permanently after making a string of low scores or retire with their heads high [something that few in Indian cricketer have done in the past] .... so the Q really is not why they should retire or whose responsible for making that call but who in your opinion should retire thus 'who should retire' [in your opinion is understood]. whom would you advise on retirement or getting dropped

 

[silentstriker]

there are quite a few reasons for some of them to retire but the primary being that they are past their best and nearing the end of their product cycle. they are likely to be dropped considering how their performance graph is going down so what should they do? face the ignominy of getting dropped permanently

It comes with the sport. Nothing shameful about it. It's not their job to call an end to their careers until they feel like it. It's the selectors job.

 

[ret]

It comes with the sport. Nothing shameful about it. It's not their job to call an end to their careers until they feel like it. It's the selectors job.

the Q here is what recommendation would you give on this issue
1. recommend some of the guys to retire
2. recommend the selectors to drop some of them, may be permanently
3. recommend some of them [if not all] to stay on for some more time, along with recommending the selectors to give more chances

if you can't answer those Qs then don't but let's not sidetrack the discussion by saying stuff like its selectors call to do this, its their call to do that

it's like I m on TV to discuss the Chinese economy and the presenter asks me 'should China make its currency fully convertible?'

for the above question, i have two options,
1. say Yes and give reasons
2. say No and give reasons

and NOT say something like "whether to make its currency fully convertible is the Chinese government's decision, it depends upon what benefits that move brings vs the current scenario, it depends upon what the Chinese companies want, it depends upon what political impact such a move could have, and so on". saying things like this doesn't answer the Q. these are basics that you are suppose to know and thats why you are asked the Q assuming that you know that. answer any Q along the above lines tells that you don't know the answer and that you don't belong to this discussion!!!!

 

[adharcric]

Worst question. Players should retire when they want to - it is not their job to determine whether they are the best available: that's what the selectors are for.

Why should they retire? If you mean who should be dropped, I'd say no one right now. After the Australia series, that could change. In terms of who I think will be gone first, I think it'll be Kumble.

It's not their job but it's something that they should keep in mind if they care about the national side and the selectors refuse to do their job. Do you really think the selectors would drop Tendulkar (with the fanatic support and endorsements) even if he deserved it? If he's still enjoying the game at the age of 40, should he keep going even if he knows he's holding the team back? If the selectors do a good job, you're absolutely right - the players should retire whenever they feel like it, end of story.

 

[Sanz]

It's not their job but it's something that they should keep in mind if they care about the national side and the selectors refuse to do their job. Do you really think the selectors would drop Tendulkar (with the fanatic support and endorsements) even if he deserved it? If he's still enjoying the game at the age of 40, should he keep going even if he knows he's holding the team back? If the selectors do a good job, you're absolutely right - the players should retire whenever they feel like it, end of story.

Why would anyone want to retire from his profession which :-

a. Pays him well
b. The Bosses want him there and happy with him

Would you give up your day job because you couldn't match your performance as a youth despite your bosses wanting you there and willing to pay you ?

 

[Burgey]

Can someone add Md Asif to the poll please?

 

[anoop4real]

Can someone add Md Asif to the poll please?

???........... I dont know what made you say that

 

[Burgey]

His B sample came back yesterday and confirmed the positive reading.