***Official*** South Africa in England

[Richard]

at this BTW:

*disclaimer: post written under influence of four pints*

extremly optomistic possibly because i am pissed

Never would've expected it from Haaaaaakon.

 

[Richard]

Oh basically I just do think a finger-spinner that rips the ball can do significantly better then one's that don't put the revs on. Maybe not bowl out a side, but take 3-90 instead of 1-70. It's just the blanket assertion that any wicket on a non-conducive pitch by a finger-spinner is down to terrible batting, that annoys me.

Well, the blanket assertion is because that's mostly the way it is.

Yes, there are some fingerspinners who spin it more than others, but there is still a very low limit to the amount of revs a fingerspinner can put on the ball. More pitches than not will not allow any fingerspinner to turn the ball significantly enough to get batsmen out. Therefore if they get any wickets, usually it'll be down to poor batting.

 

[Richard]

Agreed with this. He was just going mental at the end with some selections

Don't get the idea this was confined to the latter part of his tenure. There were odd TSTL selections early on too.

As has been said, Duncan was perhaps a little dubious on the selection front of times. At least, the bringing in of new players. He was still the best coach England have ever had, but I don't feel it'd have been a bad thing for him to have stayed on after WC2007. I don't feel Moores is able to do the job any better.

 

[Richard]

The irony is that going into this series all the talk was about the Saffie bowling attack. It's their batting that has got them into the position they are in currently, the bowling has not been great, though good enough obviously to have dismissed us for under 300 twice.

The prevailing wickets we've had (generally slow and not often seaming) have nullified the expected threat.

Had we had four bouncy, seaming pitches the SA seamers would likely have run amok.

 

[Zinzan]

SA to need 267 for mine

 

[NZTailender]

Collingwood (H)

 

[pasag]

Collingwood (H)

Bandwagon jumper, IMO.

 

[GIMH]

So gun for Collingwood to ton up. I've seen very little of this Test but I did see the pre-match discussion either yesterday or the day before and the commentators bagging the crap out of the Collingwood recall. Some were doing so here as well, all on the ridiculous basis of "you can't find your form in a Test match."

Now I think it's fair enough for Richard for example to call for Collingwood's head as he's never rated him and does not believe he has achieved a lot at Test level anyway (I disagree, but that's a fundamental difference of opinion), but poor form over a series or two should not bring someone's place under such scrutiny if they've done it in the past consistently which many (myself included) believe to be true of Collingwood. Few suggested he had actually declined; just that he was in "bad form". Bad form is something you see your established players through, not use as the first excuse to scapegoat them after a poor team performance.

He's been calling for it for ages - he wanted Shah in the team ahead of him though, not a bowler.



That's a ridiculous attitude. You don't need to make changes just because you are going through a rough period. If the team on the park has the best chance of succeeding in the medium to long term, it should remain. It should only be changed for the sake of better, not for the sake of change.

I disagree with you Prince. A fundamental aspect of selection at any level is that if you don't play well you don't get picked. Colly, like Strauss before him, has proved his worth once again now but that does not necessarily mean people were out of line to question his selection as he looked woeful. If you don't score runs then being dropped is a logical outcome, just a championship batsman would be dropped to the seconds if he didn't play well, a Test batsman can justifiably take the step down to county cricket when out of form.

 

[GIMH]

Needs to improve his batting first.

Haha. When did batting stop being a pre-requisite for a Test number 7? This isn't a number 7 after an Australian top 6. This is England we're talking about.

I didn't read his post like that; I read it that he meant the keeper's batting wasn't important because we have Flintoff at seven. And if Flintoff finds some real form with the blade, then a keeper averaging just under 30 is acceptable, IMO.

 

[GIMH]

Does it? Because it hasnt been doing so over the last year or so.

Over the last 12 months he averages 46, with 4 100s. Hardly abysmal.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Your description of Steve McClaren is accurate. Your assessment of Moores is not.

One telling difference between them is that McClaren was a consistent mediocrity at club level whereas Moores turned around a pretty rubbish and impecunious county into the best club in the country. This was not the result of inane management-speak platitudes but by instilling some serious professionalism which put other counties to shame (and which other counties have now copied).

I've nothing against Duncan Fletcher btw - particularly on grounds of his nationality - I couldn't give a toss where the England coach was born.

Sussex fan, eh? Yes, had a couple of those in my old regiment. Nice chaps in their way, but you wouldn't want to drop your soap in the shower, if you get my meaning.

Nah, seriously, you say "instilling some serious professionalism" I say "getting really spawny in signing Mustaq Ahmed"; po-tay-to, po-tar-to. If his buffoonish, slightly nineties adherence to management-speak is just a disguise for a brilliantly incisive coaching mind, it's a bloody convincing one.

Yeah I really liked seeing that. He was so immersed in the job that was still ahead of him that the personal milestone almost didn't phase him. He almost had a "stick that up you, you ****s." look about him, and good on him, because he's a bloody fighter and test cricket needs more of them.

I remember Gideon Haigh saying about Collingwood sharing his name with the AFL team who are the most cussed, bloody-minded & unpopular team that is was to his credit that he bore it lightly. I took this as a compliment.

 

[tooextracool]

Over the last 12 months he averages 46, with 4 100s. Hardly abysmal.

Since and including the winter tour of SL, Pietersen has played 12 tests (21 innings) and only had 4 subsantial knocks(3 100s and a recently compiled 94). If thats particularly good then Im pinnochio. If I have to wait 4 tests for every substantial Pietersen contribution, I think Im justified in hoping he doesnt throw it away on 94 without getting a big one.

 

[Tom Halsey]

Since and including the winter tour of SL, Pietersen has played 12 tests (21 innings) and only had 4 subsantial knocks(3 100s and a recently compiled 94). If thats particularly good then Im pinnochio. If I have to wait 4 tests for every substantial Pietersen contribution, I think Im justified in hoping he doesnt throw it away on 94 without getting a big one.

But you were saying earlier how it is more punishable to get in and get out than not get in at all.

Those stats show that when Pietersen gets in, he more often than not makes use of it.

 

[tooextracool]

But you were saying earlier how it is more punishable to get in and get out than not get in at all.

Those stats show that when Pietersen gets in, he more often than not makes use of it.

Well he hasnt been doing so often enough in recent times, which is my point. Hence he is more culpable for throwing it away when he had a chance to make a big one.

 

[steds]

Haha. Dire start.

 

[duffer]

Morne!

 

[Richard]

Dammit, Ambrose gone 2nd ball.

All that hard work yesterday for nothing.

 

[gio]

Ambrose again... Surely England have to look to someone else soon.

 

[Richard]

No sense picking someone for 1 Test IMO, especially if we end-up losing here.

Right, Ryan Sidebottom, what can you do mewonders?

 

[Richard]

Any number of things to say about that dismissal: abysmal feet-movement, decent ball that angled in then moved away, but not far enough that a good batsman should miss it completely I don't think.

Disappointing.

Hope Nel gets the new-ball.