The Fast Bowler's fast Bowlers

[archie mac]

Perhaps the only man in the game's history to be responsible for what would today count as six byes.

Yes, it might be a word beginning with A

 

[neville cardus]

Why is it that we are having such trouble comprehending one another lately? I have absolutely no idea what you meant there.

 

[archie mac]

Why is it that we are having such trouble comprehending one another lately? I have absolutely no idea what you meant there.

Apocryphal

I thought you would have been all over that one Nev

 

[neville cardus]

Unless you feel that Kortright shared Charlie Fry's irksome bent for factual fancywork, there is no reason to suppose that his tale is apocryphal, although a great many spread by their protagonists are. But it is unlikely, going by your post, that you are aware of the fact that he gave an account of it himself. This, therefore, ought to be revelatory: 

My favourite story is hard to believe, but I vouch for its truth. Playing in a club match at Wallingford on a very small ground with a pitch best described as 'sporty', I bowled a ball which rose almost straight and went out of the ground without a second bounce. I suggest that this made me the first man to bowl a six in byes!​

 

[SJS]

Unless you believe that Kortright shared C.B. Fry's irksome bent for factual fancywork, there is no reason to suppose that his story is apocryphal, although many spread by their protagonists are. I don't suppose you knew that Kortright gave an account of it, so this will no doubt be of interest: "My favourite story is hard to believe, but I vouch for its truth. Playing in a club match at Wallingford on a very small ground with a pitch best described as 'sporty', I bowled a ball which rose almost straight and went out of the ground without a second bounce. I suggest that this made me the first man to bowl a six in byes!"

Thats the key.

I have heard of Nissar bowling a bouncer on the 1932 tour of England (on a proper ground) and the ball landed inside the boundary but very close to it.

 

[Richard]

Unless you feel that Kortright shared Charlie Fry's irksome bent for factual fancywork, there is no reason to suppose that his tale is apocryphal, although a great many spread by their protagonists are. But it is unlikely, going by your post, that you are aware of the fact that he gave an account of it himself. This, therefore, ought to be revelatory: 

My favourite story is hard to believe, but I vouch for its truth. Playing in a club match at Wallingford on a very small ground with a pitch best described as 'sporty', I bowled a ball which rose almost straight and went out of the ground without a second bounce. I suggest that this made me the first man to bowl a six in byes!​

Isn't six byes a legal(-of-cricket) impossiblity though? I thought six could only be awarded once ball had hit bat?

 

[archie mac]

Unless you feel that Kortright shared Charlie Fry's irksome bent for factual fancywork, there is no reason to suppose that his tale is apocryphal, although a great many spread by their protagonists are. But it is unlikely, going by your post, that you are aware of the fact that he gave an account of it himself. This, therefore, ought to be revelatory: 

My favourite story is hard to believe, but I vouch for its truth. Playing in a club match at Wallingford on a very small ground with a pitch best described as 'sporty', I bowled a ball which rose almost straight and went out of the ground without a second bounce. I suggest that this made me the first man to bowl a six in byes!​

I must admit I still have my doubts, but less than before

 

[neville cardus]

Thats the key.

That's a mite presumptuous. Doubtless the ground's weeness played a role, but Kortie's achievement would surely have been echoed with a touch more frequency down the years if it was the primary factor.

 

[neville cardus]

Isn't six byes a legal(-of-cricket) impossiblity though? I thought six could only be awarded once ball had hit bat?

Correct. And the same rule applied during Kortright's time.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Perhaps the only man in the game's history to be responsible for what would today count as six byes.

Isn't six byes a legal(-of-cricket) impossiblity though? I thought six could only be awarded once ball had hit bat?

Correct. And the same rule applied during Kortright's time.

So why would it count as six byes today?

 

[Manee]

So why would it count as six byes today?

Perhaps implying the incompetance of today's umpires.

 

[neville cardus]

So why would it count as six byes today?

It wouldn't. I was being a wally.

 

[SJS]

That's a mite presumptuous. Doubtless the ground's weeness played a role, but Kortie's achievement would surely have been echoed with a touch more frequency down the years if it was the primary factor.

Yes, I agree it is presumptuous in so far as it assumes that the ball just cleared the fence and did not go far away into the stands.

Let me modify that. It may not be the key but is an important factor. I have seen balls fluing out of the ground in the smaller grounds where, in my neighbourhood, I first played cricket as a kid.

This is not being frivolous or in any way demeaning Kortright, one of the game's legends, but to highlight that the distance the ball travels before it finally lands is more important than the fact that it went over the boundary.

 

[SJS]

I was just browsing through Botham's Autobiography (first published 1994).

At the end of the book he selects an England XI and a World XI (13 actually which is much better than 11 to cover all conditions) from players he has played with and against. It is interesting to see the fast bowler he choses and the remarks he makes against each.

For the England side, he is clearly handicapped since it wasnt a great time for English fast bowling (has become worse since some would say) and he himself is probably the only one who would have made the grade if the two sides were to be combined.

The fast bowlers in the England side are

1. IAN BOTHAM

2. ANGUS FRASER :
At his absolute peak, before he suffered the hip injury that so badly disrupted his progress, the best of his type during my career. A close choice between him and Mike Hendrick and I wouldn't mind having either in my side, but Gus's ability to hit the bat hard with his 'heavy' ball gives him the edge. The fact that he returned to Test cricket after having been written off by so many experts is a good indication of his never say die attitude.

3. GRAHAM DILLEY :
Prior to his problems with injury he had the ability to swing the ball into as well as away from the bat at genuine pace. Injury free he could have developed into a real world class performer. Not the worst tail-end bat either.

4. BOB WILLIS :
A tremendous trier. You could throw the ball to him at any time in a match, regardless of the circumstances or how old the ball might be and his response would always be the same - let me at 'em. Shrugged off countless injuries to get out there in the field and at his peak was as quick as anyone I've faced. A great team man and an inspiration.​

Well. Not an earth shaking attack nor any great revelations about them from Beefy. Now for the World side.

1. RICHARD HADLEE :
More control than any other pace bowler I have seen. Capable of generating real pace when necessary, his accuracy and ability to move the ball in the air and off the pitch made him extremely awkward to deal with. No batsman ever felt they were really in command against him.

2. CURTLEY AMBROSE :
Wonderful destroyer. So difficult to bat against because of the bounce he could extract. Never gave you anything you could remotely describe as a free hit. Lethal when in the mood. Not over keen on bowling but even less keen on batsman.

3. JOEL GARNER :
His most deadly delivery was a fast yorker that either broke your toes or the stumps. A bloody miser with the ball who, like Ambrose, never gave you a thing. Hated conceding runs so much that if you nicked one for four he would burst into tears ! If the wicket was doing a bit, his pace and bounce could make him as near to being unplayable as you can get.

4. DENNIS LILLEE :
The best fast bowler I have ever played against. A wonderful craftsman. He had everything.​

Aha. Another Lillee fan Its amazing how many there are.

Also interesting to see how economical he is with words when talking of Lillee but perhaps there is nothing specific to talk of when "he had everything".

 

[Ikki]

Shane Warne said as a child he aspired to be Lillee, does that count too? In fact a couple years ago, I think when he took 400 or 500 wickets - one of those milestones - he said Lillee is still the greatest. Lillee's legacy overseas seems to be high (reflecting on SJS and his posts), but in Australia it is something else. He is an icon. For bowling, for cricket and for Australia.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Aha. Another Lillee fan Its amazing how many there are.

Also interesting to see how economical he is with words when talking of Lillee but perhaps there is nothing specific to talk of when "he had everything".

Gordon Greenidge has a bowling attack of Lillee, Holding, Imran, Botham and Underwood in his 1980 autobiography.

 

[SJS]

Gordon Greenidge has a bowling attack of Lillee, Holding, Imran, Botham and Underwood in his 1980 autobiography.

I am sure though I havent read the book.

You dont come across many selections in which Lillee is eligible for selection and is left out.

 

[Ikki]

Hadlee > Holding. Pretty irrefutable.

Not too sure about that. Holding didn't play Sri Lanka, Hadlee did. Removing Sri Lanka (which is 6 matches worth) Holding's average/sr is superior. It's pretty close actually. Played in largely the same era, similar record. Not sure why you say that actually. Holding is underrated.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Not too sure about that. Holding didn't play Sri Lanka, Hadlee did. Removing Sri Lanka (which is 6 matches worth) Holding's average/sr is superior. It's pretty close actually. Played in largely the same era, similar record. Not sure why you say that actually. Holding is underrated.

Holding never played against Pakistan, which in the eyes of the great unwashed puts him along side Lillee as an also ran.

 

[archie mac]

Holding never played against Pakistan, which in the eyes of the great unwashed puts him along side Lillee as an also ran.

Or in Bangladesh