***Official*** South Africa in England

[pasag]

Why should Collingwood be recalled? He's clearly out of form and there's no indication that it's a short term thing either. Get a different bat in.

 

[Flem274*]

Why should Collingwood be recalled? He's clearly out of form and there's no indication that it's a short term thing either. Get a different bat in.

There's Shah and Bopara, but I'm not convinced on either. You know more about the poms than I do I suspect, anyone tearing it up this season?

Prior as a specialist number 6 batsman anyone? Just an idea.

 

[zaremba]

What kind of pitch are we likely to find at Edgbaston?

 

[zaremba]

There's Shah and Bopara, but I'm not convinced on either. You know more about the poms than I do I suspect, anyone tearing it up this season?

Prior as a specialist number 6 batsman anyone? Just an idea.

Happy with that. As a bonus he'd also be the best fielder in the team if he were to play (provided he's not keeping wicket!).

 

[Goughy]

Why should Collingwood be recalled? He's clearly out of form and there's no indication that it's a short term thing either. Get a different bat in.

I have no issue with Collingwood not being recalled, but there does need to be someone capable of bowling useful and steady overs as a fill in 5th bowler.

As we have seen earlier in the thread that either has to be Collingwood, a combination of Bell and KP *shudders*, a new player eg Patel or Bopara *shudders at his bowling as well*

 

[Richard]

Why should Collingwood be recalled? He's clearly out of form and there's no indication that it's a short term thing either. Get a different bat in.

Don't see that as particularly likely TBH. Shah and Joyce have a very fair case, the former especially, and if you asked me who was most likely to come in and do well I'd probably say Shah.

But a couple of things: 1 I think it's actually quite unlikely another batsman will be picked, I think they're more likely to stick with five bowlers (not what I'd do and I hope I'm pleasantly surprised) and 2 if they do elect to go back to six batsmen I think Collingwood would probably still be the one picked.

 

[Richard]

Read the posts made after Pietersen's dismissal and am surprised more people weren't more damning, frankly. The bloke looked like he was in for a village green lark rather than trying to save a test.
One of those guys to whose ego you can bowl. Dire effort on his part imo.

KP's damnation (lack of) might be due to the fact that he wasn't slaying his bat at the ball that got him out. It was quite a good delivery and until that delivery, Kallis wasn't offering anything with the ball.

He would have been defensive and STILL would have gotten out to that ball.

Indeed. It's not like he was out swishing at one outside off. I thought it far more a case of excellent bowling to remove a batsman who was looking very dangerous.

England were never, ever going to save that Test. Their only chance, and it was a miniscule one, was to win.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Why should Collingwood be recalled? He's clearly out of form and there's no indication that it's a short term thing either. Get a different bat in.

Hit a 70-odd in a Pro40 over the weekend, so hopefully has turned a corner.

But you're right tho, yeah. If the selectors are retaining any sense of a pecking order (& one has one's doubts) Owais really should get at least the next two tests. Unfortunately his off-spin is worse than KP's (by a bit too) so I can see that counting against him. Not that it should, but that's just the way I can see Dusty & co's minds working.

 

[fredfertang]

Watching yesterday's highlights and Sunday evening I was a little concerned by the frequency with which Cook seems to play the ball with both feet off the ground. I'm no sort of coach but I've not noticed that before and can't believe its not a problem. Also Vaughan seems anchored to his crease rather more than he should be.

 

[Richard]

Vaughan's issues have been documented tirelessly on here. Cook too has had many problems in recent times, the one you note there amongst them. It's no coincidence that the only runs he's scored since the 2006/07 Ashes tour have been against the woeful West Indies bowling (and fielding) at the start of the summer of 2007.

Cook has always been a crouching and often slightly awkward looking batsman, but he's always until recently had the foundations. They have been eroded of late. Someone needs to do some serious work with him.

 

[DaRick]

Oh yeah, 1989 was especially galling. Right up there with the worst of them - bowled like idiots and batted even worse. And it was a game that we expected to win fairly easily, which made it even harder to stomach.

Yes, believe it or not, we were underdogs going into the series - but you'd never know it, looking back at the eventual margin of victory (or defeat, from your perspective).

1993 I'd forgotten - just another mid90's thrashing at the hands of Aus. Didn't they make 600 for 5 or something ridiculous? Of course, 1981 was looking rotten until the last session on Day 4

4/653 dec., actually.

1981 embarasses me and I wasn't even born. Truly, for all of Botham's heroics, there's no way Australia should've lost. Terrible on our part, for sure.

The wierd thing is that Headingley was always supposed to be traditional English conditions, but we've stuffed up so often there you'd never know it.

Gideon Haigh once stated that defensive frailties were often exposed by English batsmen in English conditions, IIRC.

 

[DaRick]

Vaughan's issues have been documented tirelessly on here. Cook too has had many problems in recent times, the one you note there amongst them. It's no coincidence that the only runs he's scored since the 2006/07 Ashes tour have been against the woeful West Indies bowling (and fielding) at the start of the summer of 2007.

Uh...Sri Lanka?

 

[Richard]

Cook had much good fortune against Sri Lanka (dropped on 7, IIRR, during his first-innings at SSC; dropped on 52 in his second-innings at Galle). He did not bat particularly well that series.

He had, of course, had not a little good fortune early in his career too, especially against Pakistan in summer '06. But he'd still played plenty of excellent innings' in between times.

 

[Zinzan]

When in doubt, go back to the reliable formula of your six best bats; your four best leather-flingers, and a keeper.

For mine, that means:

Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Bell
Collingwood
Flintoff
Ambrose
Anderson
Jones
Penesar

Four best leather-flingers? Could be argued that Sidebottom is better than all four assuming he's fit

 

[Richard]

Well I don't think he's better than Flintoff or, possibly, Jones, but Jones has until now not been selected presumably on the premise that his fitness still isn't proven to the degree that's deemed neccessary.

Whether a defeat and a series to pull back will alter the amount his fitness needs to be proven to will be found-out shortly.

 

[Zinzan]

Well I don't think he's better than Flintoff or, possibly, Jones, but Jones has until now not been selected presumably on the premise that his fitness still isn't proven to the degree that's deemed neccessary.

Whether a defeat and a series to pull back will alter the amount his fitness needs to be proven to will be found-out shortly.

Sidebottom over Flintoff with the ball these days IMHO. Would you have those four mentioned above ahead of Sidebottom too?

 

[Richard]

Jones - don't know, will depend on what happens if and when he returns to the Test team. Right now, no, but potentially, yes.
Flintoff - yes.
Anderson - not a chance.
Panesar - on the right surface, yes; on more surfaces than not, not a chance.

 

[Jungle Jumbo]

Can't believe all these people putting forward Jones's name for the next Test. He's barely played any cricket since the Ashes and Worcestershire are still having to rest him for many of their one-day games to ensure he doesn't fall apart. He's a decent shout for a winter tour slot, but only if he can come through the end of the season injury-free.

I reckon Broad will hang onto his place and Sidebottom will come in for Pattinson. Only the keeper's slot is then up for grabs, so we'll have to see who else is on the merry-go-round.

 

[Dempo]

I think England need to gamble now. We haven't come close to bowling out South Africa twice with what we've got. Broad looks a fabulous all-rounder in the making, but he's not doing his primary job. I've not heard any comments that Jones isn't fit enough and there's certainly little chance of him taking less wickets than Broad. Jones for Broad, Sidebottom for Pattinson. Yes, the batting looks weak, but the top seven will need to do their job properly and anyway, perhaps Anderson has the making of being a decent number eight or nine, rather than the rabbit of his early years. It may not work, but we have to win at Edgaston as The Oval will probably be another flat track.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Always thought Anderson isn't that bad with the bat tbh.