zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Matt Prior's Test match batting record:
10 matches
17 Innings
562 runs
Average 40.14
1 x 100
4 x 50s
hs 126no
Admittedly he made mistakes with the gloves, but as a batsman, he certainly hasn't looked "utterly inept".
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On Picking an English Keeper
- Thread starter Goughy
- Start date
10 matches
17 Innings
562 runs
Average 40.14
1 x 100
4 x 50s
hs 126no
Admittedly he made mistakes with the gloves, but as a batsman, he certainly hasn't looked "utterly inept".
Uppercut
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In his last series before he was dropped, in Sri Lanka, he was one of England's best batsmen for sure.
BoyBrumby
Englishman
I don't see enough domestic stuff to have any real weight to my opinion, but Foster looked in really good nick behind the sticks in Essex's QF win over Lancs. Only 2020, obv, but the fundamentals are the same.
I think the trouble is that Prior is probably the best batsmen amongst the contenders (with the possible exception of Pothas, but I think that ship may've sailed) but he's also comfortably the worst keeper. With every Ambrose failure the temptation is to forget Prior's round wankness with the gloves and concentrate on his batting prowess. Let's not forget he shelled so many chances in the Sri Lankan series it was starting to look like he had something personal against Sid tho. It's no coincidence that Sidebottom has had about 10 runs shaved off his average since he got a keeper who could catch.
I think the trouble is that Prior is probably the best batsmen amongst the contenders (with the possible exception of Pothas, but I think that ship may've sailed) but he's also comfortably the worst keeper. With every Ambrose failure the temptation is to forget Prior's round wankness with the gloves and concentrate on his batting prowess. Let's not forget he shelled so many chances in the Sri Lankan series it was starting to look like he had something personal against Sid tho. It's no coincidence that Sidebottom has had about 10 runs shaved off his average since he got a keeper who could catch.
open365
International Vice-Captain
I think Sutton is a better 4-day batsman than Cross would be, and given that Sutton seems to be doing really well for us I don't think he will or shoul take over the mantle just yet.
Tbh I really don't give a crap who England pick as wicket keeper anymore, I don't see much point in debating it as their all bloody useless and there is definitely no one in the country that has any chance of making the spot there own for the forseable future.
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Yep. He must have shelled about 10 chances off Sidey in that series alone. If i were him i'd seriously consider giving up keeping and trying to get in the side as a specialist batsman.
steds
Hall of Fame Member
Prior flogged a West Indies attack that can best be described as poo, but didn't exactly cover himself in glory against India. I'm fairly sure that should he have got a longer run in the side, his batting average would have mirrored Geraint Jones', but the fact that you can find better keepers in a hospital amputee ward may well mean we'll never know.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Prior kept poorly, yes. But you were judging him (and the rest) as batsmen not keepers. He had two very good series with the bat and one poor one. WI were indeed poo but Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka are a serious proposition and he was probably the least inept looking English batsman in that series.
open365
International Vice-Captain
Nah Prior is clearly the best bat of all the keepers, by quite a long way, if he played more he would definitely average more than the others
PhoenixFire
International Coach
Prior is a pretty decent batsman IMO, shame he can't really keep. I reckon he could easily hack it in CC as a batsman only.
Jamee999
Hall of Fame Member
Duh.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I presume Kev meant wicketkeepers who could play for the "England" cricket team - which O'Brien could (not sure whether he's currently eligible) rather than English.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
As I said - Sutton is simply someone I've seen a bit of and who hasn't looked very poor. There might well be better wicketkeepers out there but if so I don't know because I haven't watched enough of them to find-out. I've seen some of Sutton and he's never made many mistakes.
Indeed, thought has crossed my mind too TBH.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Well you can criticise Prior's keeping by all means, but to say that his batting in Tests has been inept is a little perverse. As a batsman he produced the goods.
PhoenixFire
International Coach
He very much came across as a batsman who had been taught to keep, he certainly isn't very natural with the gloves, much less so than with the bat.
steds
Hall of Fame Member
I'm pretty sure he isn't eligble atm.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I agree. He's also a top-class fielder when not keeping. There's a case for him giving up the keeping for good and trying to make a career for himself as a batsman - he's certainly got the ability.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
As Bennett has said earlier this thread - I've been far less impressed with Prior's batting than some. Sure, it hasn't been all bad, but nor was Geraint Jones'. Prior bashed an abysmally poor West Indies attack, could barely score a run against a pretty good India one and did decently against a Lankan attack that veered from deadly to pretty pedestrian.
Prior has long been someone who has struck me as weak against high-quality seam and swing. I'd virtually never seen him bat against spin of any real note and his play in SL surprised me somewhat with how good it usually was. But I think the way people talk it's as if Prior's Test batting was far better than it actually was.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm not pretending he's Wally Hammond - all I'm saying is that he's a good batsman and, overall, he's done well with the bat in his short Test career, which I don't think anyone would find particularly controversial. Averaging 40 is perfectly respectable - indeed better than any other post-war England keeper that I can think of at an equivalent point in his career.
Personally I'd have liked him to have had a rather longer shot at the job, but I'm happy that Ambrose, as the man in possession, is being given a proper run in the team.
Personally I'd have liked him to have had a rather longer shot at the job, but I'm happy that Ambrose, as the man in possession, is being given a proper run in the team.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
If Prior had got the gig as a specialist batsman (say had Pietersen missed the entire Test program of 2007 through injury) then he'd have had zero case to be dropped from the side at the time he was at all.
However, he has no case to play as a batsman-wicketkeeper. His wicketkeeping is simply not good enough. He cannot be considered a batsman-wicketkeeper for mine for this reason. I'm sure Ian Bell would be the best batsman of England batsman-wicketkeepers since Alec Stewart should he be given the gloves for a Test under the principle that "you play as a specialist wicketkeeper, you're a batsman-wicketkeeper candidate".
And though his batting has been decent, there are still others who've done far more than him, both currently in and not currently in (Shah, Joyce, even Bopara) the team.
However, he has no case to play as a batsman-wicketkeeper. His wicketkeeping is simply not good enough. He cannot be considered a batsman-wicketkeeper for mine for this reason. I'm sure Ian Bell would be the best batsman of England batsman-wicketkeepers since Alec Stewart should he be given the gloves for a Test under the principle that "you play as a specialist wicketkeeper, you're a batsman-wicketkeeper candidate".
And though his batting has been decent, there are still others who've done far more than him, both currently in and not currently in (Shah, Joyce, even Bopara) the team.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
I won't argue about his keeping which was pretty poor, although (and you'd expect me to say this) his faults have been overstated over the past year. So I take your point about him not keeping wicket.
I don't find your Bell comparison persuasive. The point is that keeping wicket drains a player - compare Sangakkara's or Stewart's batting records when keeping and when not keeping. As a keeper, his batting record was decent. I think it's fair to suppose that as a specialist batsman it would be better.
As for whether, as a specialist batsman, he'd have more to offer than Shah, Joyce or Bopara, this really remains to be seen. I'd expect Shah, Bopara and Prior to be given further opportunities in due course (Joyce seems out of favour) so we can all watch and learn.
I don't find your Bell comparison persuasive. The point is that keeping wicket drains a player - compare Sangakkara's or Stewart's batting records when keeping and when not keeping. As a keeper, his batting record was decent. I think it's fair to suppose that as a specialist batsman it would be better.
As for whether, as a specialist batsman, he'd have more to offer than Shah, Joyce or Bopara, this really remains to be seen. I'd expect Shah, Bopara and Prior to be given further opportunities in due course (Joyce seems out of favour) so we can all watch and learn.