**Official** New Zealand in England

[thierry henry]

You've just about described every New Zealand spinner to ever play pretty much, not to mention some seam bowlers and batsmen.

lol, that's pretty true re: spinners, but it doesn't make me any less right!

Not true re: seamers though, our seamers usually perform very well at domestic level, and most of them go ok at international level as well when they get enough of a run in the side, yet our seamers are always getting criticised for some reason.

Daniel Vettori is a top class ODI bowler, and an 'adequate' Test bowler (not to mention he has been a very good bat for us for the past few years). If his batting wasn't what it is, and he averaged about 9, I'd probably advocate for his dropping. But he is an intelligent captain and what you might even say a good all-rounder. Also, he has a better attitude for cricket than most other New Zealand cricketers - something we sorely lack: a killer instinct.

He's terrible under pressure. Terrible. A shocking choker. That's one of my biggest problems with him. He just isn't a winner.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

I'm not really concerned with his captaincy style, more with the example it sets when an average player with massive raps on himself is captain, and then conducts himself so poorly to boot.

It is funny how such an average player can be ranked so highly in the world. What is he ranked again? I seem to have forgotten.

 

[NZTailender]

Last time I saw Corey Anderson, he was a left-arm medium pacer...

Do you mean Robbie Schaw by any chance??

Mark Houghton after a couple of more seasons under his belt and hopefully an A tour could be pretty good.

 

[Leslie1]

Still,

Pieterson is the senior man who took the bails off, he should have really, implored Colly to not appeal the decision.

Gotta feel it for Collingwood here, he will probably be known from now on as another Chappell of cricket in terms of ugliness.

They had time to reverse it, Elliott was being treated and umpires were discussing it and that was at least 1-2 minutes to just think about it before going through with that decision.

Collingwood didn't strike me as the kind of guy who would endorse unsportsmanlike conduct to win, you do wonder the pressure he was under from his peers when he made that snap decision.

 

[_Ed_]

One name - Chris Mary Kuggle-juggle. Top class Kiwi spinner.... Mmmmm good.

Mark Priest could be quite penetrative at times, as his name might suggest.

 

[thierry henry]

Vettori at least as bad as some of the Australians? Theres a difference between over-appealing and passionately appealing. Personally I think Vettori is a very passionate appealer. I don't think you have any real case there.

And as I said before, I've found the conducting of himself to be more than appropriate for a New Zealand captain. As far massive raps on himself, I disagree although I would perceive Vettori to have self-confidence in his captaincy and bowling; would you prefer a captain without any confidence in his own ability?

Vettori regularly "appeals" by celebrating and not turning to the umpire on close decisions (even lbws), that's straight out against the laws of the game and a fine/bannable offence.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Mark Priest could be quite penetrative at times, as his name might suggest.

Oh dear.

 

[Somerset]

In ODIs (hasn't played enough tests to really judge) his average and economy rate are not good enough....which is really rather important.

His average is pretty similar to Vettori's and his economy rate may be explained due to him bowling more death overs than most spinners.

 

[thierry henry]

Have you actualy found a spinner you like?

Get him in the ODI side asap imo

 

[NZTailender]

He's terrible under pressure. Terrible. A shocking choker. That's one of my biggest problems with him. He just isn't a winner.

Instances of this happening in ODI's not immediately springing to mind. Neither tests, but I don't think we've ever had many times when he's been called upon under pressure to win us a game with the ball, except Perth 01/02, when he had a few decisions go against him.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Does he wear the ring at all times, apart from taking it off when he washes his hands? If so, it's rather unhygienic to kiss it.

I think he does wear it all the time. Next time I see him, I'll try and remember to ask him. Most of the time it's pretty unhygienic to kiss your, or anyone elses ring.

 

[_Ed_]

Most of the time it's pretty unhygienic to kiss your, or anyone elses ring.

That is true.

 

[thierry henry]

His average is pretty similar to Vettori's and his economy rate may be explained due to him bowling more death overs than most spinners.

Patel is generally too expensive at pretty much all times.

 

[Flem274*]

Might as well accept my ban from cricket then. I appeal loudly and celebrate louder. Whats more, sometimes I bowl spin instead of seam!! How criminal!

 

[_Ed_]

Instances of this happening in ODI's not immediately springing to mind. Neither tests, but I don't think we've ever had many times when he's been called upon under pressure to win us a game with the ball, except Perth 01/02, when he had a few decisions go against him.

Maybe Old Trafford this year, when he took 5 in the first innings but none in the second.

But that's the only one I can think of.

 

[Somerset]

Bruce Martin-better than Patel tbh.

Corey Anderson-he's my age and he's an allrounder that is a seamer. Not sure why he's mentioned.

Nathan McCullum-As a bowler Patel wins. McCullum has a better allround package though.

Hmm not sure how Corey Anderson made his way into that list.

If Bruce Martin is such a better bowler than Patel, any reason hes never really been a candidate for any tour as a back-up spinner? He seems to have fallen off the selector's radar over the last couple of years anyway, I seem to remember him going on a few A-level tours in the early to mid-2000s.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Mark Houghton after a couple of more seasons under his belt and hopefully an A tour could be pretty good.

Still chuffed I picked him to have a decent debut season before he'd even made his debut. I'm actually a bit worried he may suffer from Second Season Syndrome. He's got a good cricketing brain, does Houghie. Captains his club side already - I think the youngest Pearce Cup captain for quite some time when he took the role over 2 years ago - Maybe 16Tins may know if that's true or not.

 

[Flem274*]

Get him in the ODI side asap imo

You're in Auckland and the only spinner you can stand in NZ happens to be from Auckland? Hmmm....

 

[_Ed_]

If Bruce Martin is such a better bowler than Patel, any reason hes never really been a candidate for any tour as a back-up spinner? He seems to have fallen off the selector's radar over the last couple of years anyway, I seem to remember him going on a few A-level tours in the early to mid-2000s.

He has, although I remember about a year ago Chris Martin started having "C MARTIN" on the back of his shirt, so they must have thought there was a chance of another Martin being involved at that point.

McCullum still has a B on his shirt though, so maybe that's not a strong indicator.

 

[thierry henry]

Instances of this happening in ODI's not immediately springing to mind. Neither tests, but I don't think we've ever had many times when he's been called upon under pressure to win us a game with the ball, except Perth 01/02, when he had a few decisions go against him.

Especially with the bat...the tied ODI against England last summer, the ODI against Australia in 2004/05 at Wellington where he tried a ridiculous paddle-sweep shot first ball, the recent test against England where he had nothing when we needed him to take wickets...2001/02 ODI against Australia when he dropped a catch while Bevan was on his way to that amazing 100...when HAS Vettori done something spectacular to win us a match btw?