*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[Ikki]

Murali is much better away and home yet slightly worse in neutral.

Pardon, but then how are their overall records so close? I think you're stat-picking...again.

 

[Migara]

Murali is much better away and home yet slightly worse in neutral.

Pardon, but then how are their overall records so close? I think you're stat-picking...again.

So close? Average of 23 vs 25.7, SR of 35.6 vs 36.3 and most importantly ER of 3.87 vs 4.25.

This may be the joke of the year

 

[funnygirl]

Oh my God what is this

 

[funnygirl]

So close? Average of 23 vs 25.7, SR of 35.6 vs 36.3 and most importantly ER of 3.87 vs 4.25.

This may be the joke of the year

At the end of the day ,he is the man of the final of a world cup which Murli never achieved . People don't remember other ODIs that much .

 

[Ikki]

So close? Average of 23 vs 25.7, SR of 35.6 vs 36.3 and most importantly ER of 3.87 vs 4.25.

This may be the joke of the year

The results were as following

Player	Average	ER	SR
Warne	25.60	3.85	40.22
Murali	25.19	3.59	40.46

Here it's clear who's better

How are they that close yet so far apart in home and away?

Anyway, even the touted differences are negligible. Warne was simply the better ODI bowler. Their overall records are in striking distance and when it mattered Warne was much much better.

 

[Migara]

At the end of the day ,he is the man of the final of a world cup which Murli never achieved . People don't remember other ODIs that much .

Then Aravinda de SIlva will be the greatest cricketer ever. He has the best match turning performance in a WC final (107* and 3/44 in cluding Taylor, Ponting and Healy).

I am gonna die ROFL!

 

[Migara]

How are they that close yet so far apart in home and away?

Anyway, even the touted differences are negligible. Warne was simply the better ODI bowler. Their overall records are in striking distance and when it mattered Warne was much much better.

Here are stats for away matches, with above criteria.

[B]	Average	ER	SR[/B]
Murali	25.36	3.89	38.02
Warne	41.56	4.27	59.82

1. Now you have given the stats for neutral veniues. The difference is striking when it comes to away matches (or at oppositions home).

2. Murali ahs better stats in tournament finals than Warne.
In tournament finals

Grouping	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR
Murali		31	28	264.0	11	1107	46	24.06	4.19	34.4
Warne		25	25	231.5	13	984	40	24.60	4.24	34.7

Your selective nature of stats is overwhelmiongly exposed. I am talking about whole careers, and you ranu away to small bits and pieces of it to suit your argument.

 

[Ikki]

1. Now you have given the stats for neutral veniues. The difference is striking when it comes to away matches (or at oppositions home).

2. Murali ahs better stats in tournament finals than Warne.
In tournament finals

Grouping	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	Ave	Econ	SR
Murali		31	28	264.0	11	1107	46	24.06	4.19	34.4
Warne		25	25	231.5	13	984	40	24.60	4.24	34.7

Your selective nature of stats is overwhelmiongly exposed. I am talking about whole careers, and you ranu away to small bits and pieces of it to suit your argument.

Hahaha MY selective nature? I think this thread has gone beyond proving who is selective. Mr. Aravinda-played-McGrath-beautifully. Mr.-0.5-runs-=-my-player-is-better.

All Finals
Warne: Avg. 22 Econ. 4.16 SR 31.6
Murali: Avg. 23.18 Econ. 4.10 SR 33.9

WC Finals
Warne: Avg. 14.85 Econ. 4.33 SR 20.5
Murali: Avg. 25.12 Econ. 3.85 SR 39.1

 

[Son Of Coco]

148 pages of this...fantastic

 

[Ikki]

Then Aravinda de SIlva will be the greatest cricketer ever. He has the best match turning performance in a WC final (107* and 3/44 in cluding Taylor, Ponting and Healy).

I am gonna die ROFL!

Aravinda did it how many times? Warne did it how many times? What is Aravinda's overall career record btw? And what about Warne's? Do they stack up to their contemporaries?

I think we both know the answer. So you keep rolling on the floor laughing.

 

[Ikki]

Here are the transformed values for Murali vs Warne. First is for Neutral venues, second for Away venues

So against teams that were actually good and those that both played Warne was better. Thanks for clearing it up.

BTW is there a reason for keeping teams like Kenya, Bangladesh, etc, but leaving out teams like Asia XI, Africa XI and World XI?

You also did these tables in the Test argument and were found stat-fixing. How can anyone trust you again here? In that argument you used some of the most disgraceful methods to try and sway the argument.

 

[Jakester1288]

I would just say Warne. Stuff the stats, Warne is better imo.

 

[gwo]

Why didn't you include NZ in those stats who have done well in the WC's all considering and whom Murali does quite well against. Suspicious.

cos New Zealand aren't ODI class??

HHAHA

(awesome argument )

 

[Migara]

Aravinda did it how many times? Warne did it how many times? What is Aravinda's overall career record btw? And what about Warne's? Do they stack up to their contemporaries?

I think we both know the answer. So you keep rolling on the floor laughing.

This was aimed at funnygirl. De Silva easily has the best individual performance in a WC Final. That would not make him the ebst ODI player. Same for Warne. Being a better bowler in WC Finals will not make him the best ODI bowler.

And who did Warne bowl to ODI finals? When he bowled to SL he got mauled. He bowled the other instance against a piss-poor spin playing side who have been traditionally overrated for their spin play. Murali both instaces bowled to superb batting sides. Once he got hammered, but other time he bowled very well.

 

[Migara]

So against teams that were actually good and those that both played Warne was better. Thanks for clearing it up.

BTW is there a reason for keeping teams like Kenya, Bangladesh, etc, but leaving out teams like Asia XI, Africa XI and World XI?

You also did these tables in the Test argument and were found stat-fixing. How can anyone trust you again here? In that argument you used some of the most disgraceful methods to try and sway the argument.

Ha Ha! who was the one named those disgraceful methods?

KaZoH0lic's idea #1, called as mine and disgraceful

KaZoH0lic's idea #2, called as mine and disgraceful

Disgraceful statfixing #3

so KaZoH0lic, you are the one who have fixed stats. I have given clear reasons when I used some method to analyze stats. But you have given none. Then you have not understood a single reason given by me on standardization of stats.

 

[Ikki]

Ha Ha! who was the one named those disgraceful methods?

KaZoH0lic's idea #1, called as mine and disgraceful

Uh, what? This link just showed the post where you used the wrong values when you standardised.

KaZoH0lic's idea #2, called as mine and disgraceful

Again, another post which shows your disgraceful stat-fixing - leaving out Murali's record against Australia.

Disgraceful statfixing #3

Er. how is that stat-fixing? Care to explain?

It's just a different measure. YOU on your OWN measure inputted the WRONG percentages. Not by a little, by a LOT. The ONLY proportion you got correct was against Zimbabwe.

so KaZoH0lic, you are the one who have fixed stats. I have given clear reasons when I used some method to analyze stats. But you have given none. Then you have not understood a single reason given by me on standardization of stats.

Nah...pretty clear here who is desperate enough to actually change stats to try and build his argument. What is sad is that EVEN when you do that the difference is like 0.5 runs? And that's definitive for you? Be ashamed.

 

[Ikki]

This was aimed at funnygirl. De Silva easily has the best individual performance in a WC Final. That would not make him the ebst ODI player. Same for Warne. Being a better bowler in WC Finals will not make him the best ODI bowler.

And who did Warne bowl to ODI finals? When he bowled to SL he got mauled. He bowled the other instance against a piss-poor spin playing side who have been traditionally overrated for their spin play. Murali both instaces bowled to superb batting sides. Once he got hammered, but other time he bowled very well.

Who did he bowl against, Windies, S.Africa and Pakistan. Best sides of his day . The Sri Lanka play spin well is not why Warne didn't take wickets because Warne does very well against Sri Lanka . In that final Australia only took 2 wickets (Reiffel and Fleming the bowlers).

And how did Murali do very well in one of them? He took 1/31. (avg. 31, SR 60, econ 3.1). He did averagely in one and was flogged in the other. BTW, this is just the final, not all finals.

Again, I am wondering if this is an honest mistake or you're pretending to be clueless for the sake of holding onto your argument. Irrelevant comparison.

Aravinda cannot compare to Warne because he only has a World cup finals record that is impressive. He doesn't also have an overall record or an overall world cup record to match. Whereas the difference in Warne and Murali is that they're equal in most departments but Murali is clearly not as good (not many are) as Warne when it mattered.

 

[Migara]

Uh, what? This link just showed the post where you used the wrong values when you standardised.

Laugh at yourself mate. That is precisely what I have done in Here. Standardized for the number of deliveries bowled by each. So it's disgraceful stat fixing. ROFL!

 

[Migara]

Again, another post which shows your disgraceful stat-fixing - leaving out Murali's record against Australia.

Murali's overs with Australia should be level with Warne's overs with Sri Lanka. To factor in the 186 ICC overs, just add another 186 overs to Murali's record against Australia. That would give 3353 overs V Australia, pretty much the only change you need to make to make it level.

Once again you know that by adding that you can skew Murali's stats.

How can you test ball type A vs ball type B to find which lasts long? You have to bowl it under similar conditions. If yo bowl ball A in AUS, BAN, ENG, IND, PAK, SAF, WI & ZIM and ball B in BAN, ENG, IND, PAK, SAF, SL, WI & ZIM how you are going to be testing under similar conditions? Similar case with Warne and Muralil and BTW I included the stats which are in question to my analysis as well. Look here

I took them away for just calculating propotions played against each country. I added them to final analysis however.The final figures in bold includes matches against AUS, SL and ICC XI

Either you cannot understand it. Or you are too hypocratic to show it.

 

[Migara]

Again, another post which shows your disgraceful stat-fixing - leaving out Murali's record against Australia.

And about your calculations: Once agains wrong Logic. You've calculated proportions including matches against AUS and SL. The standardizarion could be only done against common oppositions. Only later you can add those figures against SL and AUS. You cannot have it to calculate the proportions. Your figures are diffrent because you have grossly neglected that standardization can be done against common oppositions.

If you look carefully you'll see that percentages in AUS column for Murali and SL column for Warne are empty. My figures are backed up with a strong set of criteria, so I am with my figures and they are correct according to criteria I have used.

I have very well explained it. You are showing your deficiencies in understanding it.