**Official** New Zealand in England

[Prince EWS]

I think Taylor is the best no3 in the country and so he should bat there. Actually, I dont see a place for How in the side. I know he has done well but I dont know how long that will continue and he doesnt seem to fit in well in the batting order. I think he is the third best opening option behind McCullum and Ryder and the second best no3 option behind Taylor, so he might have to battle it out with Flynn for the no4 spot imo,

Haha, New Zealand certainly aren't in a position to discard of batsman with an ODI average of 41 at the moment. James Marshall and Gareth Hopkins were in the team the other day and Grant Elliott is playing tonight - How is a walkup start even if he had to bat 5 or 6 (which he wouldn't).

I don't see why Taylor can't bat #4. Even if you think he'd be better suited to #3, it'd only be marginal - he averages more at #4 so far in ODIs than he does at #3 anyway. If he had to bat #3 and Ryder made a comeback, I'd actually just bat Ryder at #4. How's place in the top three should certainly not be in question at the moment.

In reality, this would be the "full strength" top 7:

1. McCullum
2. Ryder
3. How
4. Taylor
5. Styris
6. Flynn
7. Oram

There's no guarentee Ryder will ever be back though - in which case I'd probably look at Franklin batting 7 and moving everyone else up one.

 

[Flem274*]

It infuriates me that some people don't think much of Jamie How is ODIs just because he doesn't whack the thing to China first ball. He has shown quite a few times, especially in Napier, what he can do once he's in. It may have been Napier but that was a big total and he came out and played with his brain and did magnificently. Whats more, How can handle pressure even though its early in his career. He's also consistent. Quite a few batsmen in our team should take a good look at how he plays.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Quite a few batsmen in our team should take a good look at how he plays.

Very clever, you are.

 

[Isura]

But Styris is likely to do better than Styris did the other day.

Not likely. He has looked out of sorts this whole tour, and wasn't much better in the IPL.

 

[Flem274*]

Take Styris to anywhere with a slow low pitch and he'll be back in form pronto.

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

Not likely. He has looked out of sorts this whole tour, and wasn't much better in the IPL.

Hardly got a chance in the IPL anyways. Yeah, he is out of form, but I'd rather have a player with the potential to score well, out of form or not, than a player with no potential at all.
Same goes with Fulton > Marshall

 

[Richard]

what's the overall record for a CW thread? Could be in danger one feels

Nah, someone must've smashed it for the 05 Ashes.

In all of CW? Loads have gone over 5000.

Not individual posts by a person though.

Faaip would have a chance in 2005 Ashes maybe? Can't remember who else as active in that thread.

Actually, I doubt faaip touched 1000 posts in that thread. Can't think of anyone having over 1000.

Maybe Pasag in the 06/07 Ashes, cos he's a weirdo.

Anyways, 1000+ posts in a match thread:

1,408 - Richard (**Official** England in New Zealand - 2007/8)
1,394 - silentstriker (***Official*** India in South Africa - 2006/07)
1,350* - Richard (**Official** New Zealand in England - 2008)
1,226 - FaaipDeOiad (***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes) - 2005)
1,159 - adharcric (***Official*** India in South Africa - 2006/07)
1,119 - Dravid (***Official*** India in South Africa - 2006/07)

Yeah, was going to mention - for ages Fuller with Aus in Eng '05 had the only 1,000+ contribution (trivia threads excluded), then ss, Akhil and Nitin (Dravid) all suddenly made 1,000 in that India in SA '06/07.

I've now managed 1,000+ in two consecutive England tour threads.

BTW Jono - mystified as to how Gelman could've gone past 1,000 in the '06/07 Ashes thread, as there wasn't one. Rather a forum. Wonder who had most posts in that forum, mind.

 

[Richard]

Except that the best wicket keeper batsmen in the country is still a rubbish batsman and would not make it into the side on his batting alone. Which is why he opens the batting and plugs the gap. I do not see the logic of having to drop Mascrenhas so that someone like Ambrose can come in and average 25 odd at number 7. Meanwhile Luke Wright or Alistair Cook (and shoot me if we see Strauss again) offers England with their fantastic services at the top of the order. It blows my mind.

Ambrose averaging 25 (or whatever he ends-up averaging) at seven is no different to Mustard doing sod-all at the top of the order. If anything it simply weakens the batting even further, because you're pretending you've got six batsmen when in reality you've got five (as Mustard is so far from being capable of being a frontline batsman it's untrue). Yes, ideally Mascarenhas would play, but if he's going to do so you've just got to drop a batsman anyway, whether the wicketkeeper opens or bats at six.

 

[Richard]

The weather forcast for todays match isn't looking too good.

Not looking promising at all.

 

[Flem274*]

Cook
Bell
KP
Collingwood
Bopara/Shah/that bloke Azfaal
Flintoff
Ambrose
Mascarenhas/Swann
Broad
Sidearse
Anderson

Though if Anderson goes for 6 an over much more he's out for Mascarenhas/Swann.

Bell and Cook together is a risk but they are proper batsmen and I can't think of anyone better.

 

[Flem274*]

Not looking promising at all.

Good. Now Elliot can GAGF and Oram can return for the third game.

Whens Jimmy Franklin returning, anyone know?

 

[S.P. Fleming]

so is there any chance of seing play today coz i was really looking forward to a good knock from Jamie How.

 

[Prince EWS]

Ambrose averaging 25 (or whatever he ends-up averaging) at seven is no different to Mustard doing sod-all at the top of the order. If anything it simply weakens the batting even further, because you're pretending you've got six batsmen when in reality you've got five (as Mustard is so far from being capable of being a frontline batsman it's untrue). Yes, ideally Mascarenhas would play, but if he's going to do so you've just got to drop a batsman anyway, whether the wicketkeeper opens or bats at six.

The thing is, though, you can drop Wright - obviously the worst batsman in the lineup - if the keeper opens. No-one else wants to open the batting so to play Mascarenhas and drop a batsman would require dropping Shah or Bopara instead.

You're essentially arguing against all possibly options in conflicting ways. I'll put it more simply - name your eleven.

 

[Richard]

TBH I want neither Wright nor Mustard. Nor the wicketkeeper opening.

Right now, the XI I'd be happiest with, taking into account accepted realities (such as Shah, Bopara and Anderson) would be something along the lines of:
Cook
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Shah
Ambrose
Swann
Mascarenhas
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson

I don't accept that this is any stronger if the wicketkeeper opens and Shah bats six. It's still the same amount of skill and lack-of-skill.

 

[Prince EWS]

TBH I want neither Wright nor Mustard. Nor the wicketkeeper opening.

Right now, the XI I'd be happiest with, taking into account accepted realities (such as Shah, Bopara and Anderson) would be something along the lines of:
Cook
Bell
Bopara
Pietersen
Shah
Ambrose
Swann
Mascarenhas
Broad
Sidebottom
Anderson

I don't accept that this is any stronger if the wicketkeeper opens and Shah bats six. It's still the same amount of skill and lack-of-skill.

The captain's place would come into the world of "accepted realities" IMO...

 

[_Ed_]

Not looking promising at all.

Darn, I was hoping to make a point about the current makeup of our team by shunning the game in favour of Royal Ascot.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don't accept that this is any stronger if the wicketkeeper opens and Shah bats six. It's still the same amount of skill and lack-of-skill.

It's not a matter of just moving players around though. That's the point. By opening with the wicket keeper, it allows you to play a superior batsman, as your middle order stocks are in much better shape than your opening stocks. Collingwood >>>>>> Cook as an ODI batsman at the current time.

 

[Richard]

The captain's place would come into the world of "accepted realities" IMO...

Haha, oops.

 

[Richard]

It's not a matter of just moving players around though. That's the point. By opening with the wicket keeper, it allows you to play a superior batsman, as your middle order stocks are in much better shape than your opening stocks. Collingwood >>>>>> Cook as an ODI batsman at the current time.

You might as well open with Shah, Collingwood or Bopara as the wicketkeeper. They're all likely to do an equally poor job. Difference is some still hold-out hopes for Shah and Bopara in the middle too.

You can't change the fact that there are no good openers by opening with a middle-order batsman (whether that middle-order batsman is a wicketkeeper or not).

 

[NZTailender]

Collingwood's like your second best ODI player at the moment. Would be stupid not to have him in the side.