The Fast Bowler's fast Bowlers

[SJS]

Actions of HALL and SOBERS in Testthe First ever tied

 

[Burgey]

Wonderful stuff there SJS.

Here's something from the "Chappell Era" video re. 75-76. The comments of Richards and Lloyd I think are particularly illuminating re. the sheer pace of Thommo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503xvL_2IJQ&feature=related

Of course, it's fair to say the Windies more than got their revenge over the next 10 years or more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urGsk01ZKI8&feature=related

That test was Boon's debut. He got 50 odd iirc in the second innings. Once he got to 50, Marshall said to him "Well done Boony, now are you going to get out or do I have to come around the wicket and kill you?"

 

[SJS]

This one is all about Dexter's marvellous batting at Lords but you get to see the actions Davidson and McKenzie

 

[SJS]

And here is what Trueman calls, rightly I think, the greatest piece of fast bowling in the entire history of the game.

Holding destroys England single handedly at the Oval 1976

Its very important to understand how much of a batsman's wicket - a featherbed as Trueman called it - this wicket was. Here is what the other pace and medium pace bowlers from the two sides did in this Test match.

- 1122 runs were scored when England and West Indies finished one innings each fand all wickets had not fallen in these!
- Two double centuries were scored , one by either side, in the first innings!
- West Indies scored another 187 without loss before declaring their second innings closed.
- Now 1304 runs had been scored in the match and yet 20 wicket had not fallen.
- The bowling analysis on both sides made pathetic reading with one exception Mike Holding whose 8 first innings wickets had come at 11.5 runs each.​

• 28 wickets fell in this match.
• Half of them fell to bowlersthat included the likes of Andy Roberts, Bob Willis, Mike Selvey, Derek Underwood, Vanburn Holder, Tony Greig, Wayne Daniell. - that is 14 wickets for a combined total of 1254 runs at about 90 runs each
  

.

and the other 14 fell to Mike Holding at 10.6 each !!

 

[weldone]

And here is what Trueman calls, rightly I think, the greatest piece of fast bowling in the entire history of the game.

Holding destroys England single handedly at the Oval 1976

Its very important to understand how much of a batsman's wicket - a featherbed as Trueman called it - this wicket was. Here is what the other pace and medium pace bowlers from the two sides did in this Test match.

- 1122 runs were scored when England and West Indies finished one innings each fand all wickets had not fallen in these!
- Two double centuries were scored , one by either side, in the first innings!
- West Indies scored another 187 without loss before declaring their second innings closed.
- Now 1304 runs had been scored in the match and yet 20 wicket had not fallen.
- The bowling analysis on both sides made pathetic reading with one exception Mike Holding whose 8 first innings wickets had come at 11.5 runs each.​

• 28 wickets fell in this match.
• Half of them fell to bowlersthat included the likes of Andy Roberts, Bob Willis, Mike Selvey, Derek Underwood, Vanburn Holder, Tony Greig, Wayne Daniell. - that is 14 wickets for a combined total of 1254 runs at about 90 runs each
  

.

and the other 14 fell to Mike Holding at 10.6 each !!

Wow that's something...Didn't know about it I must admit...

 

[SJS]

Wow that's something...Didn't know about it I must admit...

Whats more,

• 9 of those 14 batsmen he got were clean bowled.
• another three were lbw
• only for two he needed to use the slips or the keeper to help!

 

[vic_orthdox]

Here's some 74-75 footage of Thommo & Lillee to chill any Englaishman to the bones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oPGYasddQ&feature=related

At about 2.25 you can see Marsh standing near Lillee's marker. I recall a doco on Lillee fort eh 70s called "25 steps", being the length of his paced-out run up.

This may give us a better indication of how far back Marsh et al were standing with Thommo at full tilt.

How good is Viv's back foot drive off Lillee, at 2:10?

 

[SJS]

How good is Viv's back foot drive off Lillee, at 2:10?

Fabulous !

 

[weldone]

Whats more,

• 9 of those 14 batsmen he got were clean bowled.
• another three were lbw
• only for two he needed to use the slips or the keeper to help!

Undoubtedly the best bowling display in a match that I've ever seen or heard happening in a test match (Not sure I've heard all of them though)...

 

[SJS]

Undoubtedly the best bowling display in a match that I've ever seen or heard happening in a test match (Not sure I've heard all of them though)...

Well Trueman bowled in his first Test in 1952 with Bedser at the other end, he went on to become the first man to take 300 test wickets and was still watching the game till very recently (corrected). In almost 60 years of playing the game and watching it he thinks it is the finest he has ever seen so I would say that is very significat too.

 

[Richard]

Well - sadly Trueman wasn't watching the game any more as of July 2006. But he had a fine innings.

 

[fredfertang]

There was an entertaining interview with Jeff Thomson on cricinfo earlier this year (14 Jan).

As you would expect he was keen to assert that he, Dennis Lillee and their contemporaries were much faster than today's fast bowlers. His explanation for the quoting of similar figures for speeds of the two generations is that he and his contemporaries were measured from the speed when the ball reached the batsman rather than, as today, the speed when the ball leaves the bowler's hand which at least sounds sensible although whether it is correct I know not.

Personally I would like to think the fastest bowler of all time was Harold Larwood (and my romantic leanings will mean that whatever the answer is to who is the fastest he is the answer to the "who is the best" question) but as all athletic records have been beaten by some distance since the Thirties I suspect he can't have been - that being said of course there has also been a change in the no-ball law meaning that in the old days the bowler could effectively steal a couple of yards on present day bowlers so perhaps he could be.

What does occur to me however, and the reason for this post, is that I know there must be some serious techies on this forum, who will be able to express a knowledgable view on what I, as a mere layman would think is obvious, being that today's technology and the amount of film available of all the great fast bowlers since the First World War must surely mean that an accurate assessment and consequent comparison of their speeds must be possible and that the “who is the fastest” argument ought to be capable of being settled once and for all.

Or am i being naive and over simplifying the issue?

 

[archie mac]

There was an entertaining interview with Jeff Thomson on cricinfo earlier this year (14 Jan).

As you would expect he was keen to assert that he, Dennis Lillee and their contemporaries were much faster than today's fast bowlers. His explanation for the quoting of similar figures for speeds of the two generations is that he and his contemporaries were measured from the speed when the ball reached the batsman rather than, as today, the speed when the ball leaves the bowler's hand which at least sounds sensible although whether it is correct I know not.

Personally I would like to think the fastest bowler of all time was Harold Larwood (and my romantic leanings will mean that whatever the answer is to who is the fastest he is the answer to the "who is the best" question) but as all athletic records have been beaten by some distance since the Thirties I suspect he can't have been - that being said of course there has also been a change in the no-ball law meaning that in the old days the bowler could effectively steal a couple of yards on present day bowlers so perhaps he could be.

What does occur to me however, and the reason for this post, is that I know there must be some serious techies on this forum, who will be able to express a knowledgable view on what I, as a mere layman would think is obvious, being that today's technology and the amount of film available of all the great fast bowlers since the First World War must surely mean that an accurate assessment and consequent comparison of their speeds must be possible and that the “who is the fastest” argument ought to be capable of being settled once and for all.

Or am i being naive and over simplifying the issue?

I like to think it is Kortright

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I like to think it is Kortright

Alan Ward was possibly the fastest England bowler of all time, unfortunately he was always injured and couldn't bowl straight to save his granny, but he was quick.

 

[Richard]

Always thought it'd be fascinating to know for sure how fast some of these relative nobodies like Ward were.

 

[fredfertang]

Always thought it'd be fascinating to know for sure how fast some of these relative nobodies like Ward were.

On the subject of relative nobodies ..........................

According to Frank Chester Larwood was the finest fast bowler he ever saw – that view, coming as it does from a man who stood in something like 50 tests from the end of the Great War to the mid-fifties must be given considerable weight – he did, however, rate him as only the second fastest – he reckoned the quickest was one W B (Billy) Burns who he played with at Worcestershire before the Great War – looking at his figures on cricinfo Burns looks like a distinctly useful all-rounder although according to his obituary in Wisden 1917 (he died in action) “the fairness of his action was often questioned – not without good reason” – strong words from the good book in those days and no doubt the reason why Burns is a forgotten figure.

 

[SJS]

Ashley Mallet's first class career extended from 1967 to 1981. He actually played with or against, besides others, Lillee, Thomson, McKenzie, Hogg, Walker and Connolly - Australia, Snow, Botham, Willis, Old, Hendrick, Lever, Dilley and Arnold - England, Roberts Holding, Croft, Garner, Marshall (very little early career), Hall (very little - last bit) and Daniel - West Indies, Proctor and Peter Pollock - South Africa, Imran and Sarfaraz - Pakistan, Hadlee, Taylor, Collinge and Cairns - New Zealand and Kapil Dev.

In a prolonged interview/series of interviews in David Lemmon's book "For the Love of the Game" speakss about the great players he played against. Here is what he says of the fast bowlers of his era which included probably one of the greatest array from around the world.

DENNIS LILLEE
I bowled a fair bit in tandem with Dennis Lillee. He was, quite simply, the greatest fast bowler of my era. He had technical expertise, fitness, the physical build, stamina and determination to match with any fast bowler of any time. He was quick to find a batsman's weakness, and most seemed to dislike the ball which pitches leg and moves to hit the top of the off-stump. Dennis had a not unusually long run, and he used his run to build on the right tempo at release point.

He was rhythmical.

Lillee had a nice easy action. superbly side on. He usually bowled close to the stumps and made full use of the late out-swing. He also had a very good leg cutter and also had an explosive attitude towards the batsmen.

JOHN SNOW
England's best answer to him (Lillee) was John Snow. He wasn't built like a great fast bowler and he didn't look like a bully-boy with the ball, but he had a quiet determination, was an aggressive cuss and was the sort of bloke who held a grudge. .....

Snowie could slow his pace and bowl with his head, as he did at Lord's in '72., when he bowled with intelligence and guile. He could mix it with the best of them.

ANDY ROBERTS
...was another good fast bowler. He was a mean customer and I think he might have played a bit on his fearsome stare from those black, unblinking eyes.

He was hostile.

He could bowl a good out-swinger, but I always thought his ability to cut the ball either way made him a difficult bowler to combat on any type pf surface. I think he learnt his cutting ability while he was trying to be effective on the sluggish wickets at Southampton during his long stint with Hampshire.

He was the key figure in Lloyd's scheme of things in the late '70's. He was the consistent launch pad, the ace strike bowler who gave non-stop hostility. You must remember that for the majority of his career he didn't have a barrage of pace men with him. He had spinner Lance Gibbs and a couple of medium pacers. Lloyd's plan of Bodyline revisited did not begin to evolve until Robert's career was on the wane, but he was almost in Lillee's class.​

So. These three are clearly his three top bowlers from his era with Lillee on top and perhaps Roberts second.

Its amazing how player after player is so similar in his assessment. Lillee as the greatest and Roberts and Hall the finest from the West Indies.

..... to be continued

 

[bagapath]

the fastest bowlers i've seen in the last 27 years have been holding, marshall, imran (at times), donald, devon malcolm, waqar, lee and shoaib.

shoaib's colombo spell against the aussies (5-16) is the fastest i've been privileged to see

 

[fredfertang]

Returning to the subject of relative nobodies

Legend has it that Colin Hilton aka “The White Flash” was decidedly quick but not the most accurate – made his debut for Lancashire in the late 50's but ultimately couldn't hold down a first XI place - played for Essex for a while too and never quite made it there either – a bloke who used to coach me as a child (and what a thankless task that must have been!) was a Northern League player and faced Hilton once in the late 60’s when he broke a few records playing for Morecambe in the Northern League, told us at nets one evening “they told me he was quick – but what they didn’t tell me was that he was like f****** greased lightning”. I repeated the story to my Dad when I got home (I was about 10) – he roared with laughter and it was the only time before I reached my twenties that I got away with using the F word at home!

shoaib's colombo spell against the aussies (5-16) is the fastest i've been privileged to see
Today 07:31 PM

If pushed I think I would have to concede Shoaib is the quickest I have seen though sadly only from the comfort of my armchair

 

[neville cardus]

I like to think it is Kortright

Perhaps the only man in the game's history to be responsible for what would today count as six byes.