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Stuart MacGill announces his retirement

DaRick

State Vice-Captain
quote by quote?
takes too long, I guess i was out knowledged by you, :laugh:

most of what you said was correct, my knowledge of cricket is not as good as i thought :unsure:
Well, at least you've got humility, which is admirable in itself.

I dont know where to put clark tbh, because i stand by what i said, i dont think anyone has actually taken him up.
Where people did to mcgrath and warne and yes they still got their man
Well, admittedly, you're right in saying that few people have attempted to have a go at him in Test matches - mostly because it'd be exceptionally foolish to, for reasons that I detailed earlier.

:laugh: touche on the ending note

in the day, i used to have very good typing skills to put my point out, but that goes to another forum now..........
You may as well re-introduce them then. I personally prefer blokes who type properly over those who don't. It makes your argument seem more articulate.

cheers i look forward to arguing with you again
Uh...me too, I guess. :)
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
feel all warm and gooey tbh...


still its nice to see one of these end amicably rather than in a 7-dayer.
 

Blue_Faithful

Cricket Spectator
Well, at least you've got humility, which is admirable in itself.
Again it might be because I'm tired or cant help feel your being sarcastic??

Its funny, I actually wanted to be a sports writer, but then realised......I'm not very good getting my thoughts onto the computer screen nor making sense of what I type down.

A few to many head hits from my rugby league days I think was ruined, what I thought could have been a controversial career as I dont like the Aussie cricket team, once they put that baggygreen on, they all change for the worst and its killing cricket in every way, Sydney Test was the start of it.
 

DaRick

State Vice-Captain
Again it might be because I'm tired or cant help feel your being sarcastic??
Nah, not that time. :p

Its funny, I actually wanted to be a sports writer, but then realised......I'm not very good getting my thoughts onto the computer screen nor making sense of what I type down.
Ironic.

A few to many head hits from my rugby league days I think was ruined, what I thought could have been a controversial career as I dont like the Aussie cricket team, once they put that baggygreen on, they all change for the worst and its killing cricket in every way, Sydney Test was the start of it.
I disagree with your sentiments - there are other things which have done more to kill cricket (i.e - the BCCI, the ICC) than an aggressive (occasionally too much so) cricket team. They did make a couple of mistakes during the Sydney Test (i.e - they could gone without the Tony Greig references at the end and the Clarke catch was inconclusive), but not so many that it warranted a tsunami of criticism along with calls for Ricky Ponting's sacking. That was ridiculous, as was the Indian reaction to the event (i.e - 'spirit of the game' remark, threatened boycotts, etc.)

I don't feel like elaborating anymore - it's too late and I've got other things to do. I'll pick this up tomorrow, maybe.
 
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Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Agree about Bracken. Why don't the selectors ever consider him? He always bowls really well in the one day internationals and he is bowling better than Johnson at least. They should at least try him out IMO
He is massively successful in OD cricket due to his change of pace and those tidy cutters he bowls.

He is a nightmare to try and dominate against. However, his skills dont translate to succeeding when quality batsmen dont have to force the pace and have to be 'got' out ie, dont translate well to Test cricket.
 

Migara

International Coach
this would have been extremely difficult to deal with because had Warne not been around, MacGill would have had at least 500 Test wickets.
He would have been out of the side if he was in place of Warne during his early tours bowling to Sidhu, Azhar and Sachin. They would have taken MacGill to the cleaners (they did the same to Warne as well)
 

Migara

International Coach
No one dominated McGrath over the years. No one.

Some scored runs against him from time to time, but no one dominated him over the full course of his career. He got the two guys you mention out a lot of times, great players that they were, just as they took runs from him a fair few times as well.
Aravinda de Silva played him magnificiently when these two locked horns against each other. McGrath got him out twice only in about 7 odd matches and 14 innings. He used to milk singles to square leg and mid wicket from McGrath's bowling which frustrated Pidge to the death.
 

Nate

You'll Never Walk Alone
He is a nightmare to try and dominate against. However, his skills dont translate to succeeding when quality batsmen dont have to force the pace and have to be 'got' out ie, dont translate well to Test cricket.
Says what? Two Tests against India five years ago? Times have changed.
 

Blue_Faithful

Cricket Spectator
I disagree with your sentiments - there are other things which have done more to kill cricket (i.e - the BCCI, the ICC) than an aggressive (occasionally too much so) cricket team. They did make a couple of mistakes during the Sydney Test (i.e - they could gone without the Tony Greig references at the end and the Clarke catch was inconclusive), but not so many that it warranted a tsunami of criticism along with calls for Ricky Ponting's sacking. That was ridiculous, as was the Indian reaction to the event (i.e - 'spirit of the game' remark, threatened boycotts, etc.)
The teams made a pact to take word of the fielder which aus didnt first and then india followed. The whole symonds/singh racial slur was just pathetic, if monkey gets symonds upset then that will do me.
Michael Clarke not to walk when it was clear he was out was just the worst thing Ive ever seen.
Ive hated the aussie way of sledging, Mcgrath started giving batman a gob full, then lee and now guys like johnson and clark doing it.
Win at all costs.......is a perfect way to discribe Australian cricket, never mind nobody turns up because you win, as long as you win everyone is happy.8-)

Do you honestly think Australia winning 2 WC's without loosing a game, destroying england 5-0, basically winning everything is good for cricket. India winning 20/20 was fantastic for cricket. Look at crowds all over the world, look at quality of junior players all over the world. The game isnt in a good way at the moment, and the dominance of Australia has a big part to do with it.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
No one dominated McGrath over the years. No one.

Some scored runs against him from time to time, but no one dominated him over the full course of his career. He got the two guys you mention out a lot of times, great players that they were, just as they took runs from him a fair few times as well.
They both average 50+ against us, what more could they do?
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Aravinda de Silva played him magnificiently when these two locked horns against each other. McGrath got him out twice only in about 7 odd matches and 14 innings. He used to milk singles to square leg and mid wicket from McGrath's bowling which frustrated Pidge to the death.
I checked mate, and it's 6 matches and 10 innings. Aravinda did not do well against McGrath or Australia as a whole. Warne took him thrice, McGrath twice, Fleming and M.Waugh once each and he had 2 not-outs. All for an average of 36 and an SR not much higher. Not in the same zip code as how the Indians did here all those times. If he played us magnificently; Sachin, Rahul and VVS murdered us.

Aravinda was a battler, but I never remembered him doing well against us in Tests.
 
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Burgey

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They both average 50+ against us, what more could they do?
But what were their first-chance averages v McGrath?

No argument, they were/ are great players.

But Tendulkar averages 36 in 9 tests when McGrath played (unless I've ballsed-up statsguru which is as likely as not), not sure how many times he got him out though.

Likewise, Lara like Tendulkar scored a heap of runs v Australia, but equally McGrath got him out, iirc a dozen or more times in tests. So whilst I wouldn't say he necessarily dominated either of them, neither did they dominate him.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
But what were their first-chance averages v McGrath?

No argument, they were/ are great players.

But Tendulkar averages 36 in 9 tests when McGrath played (unless I've ballsed-up statsguru which is as likely as not), not sure how many times he got him out though.
You're absolutely right.

He averages 5 in 1997, but 46, 50 and 41 the last three times they faced. He scored two centuries and nine fifites out of nine matches when McGrath was in the squad, so it was a fair effort, but he never got on top of McGrath. Not on any consistent basis. McGrath got the better of him plenty of times. He was dismissed twice for naught during that time, both times by McGrath.

In 18 innings that he played vs. McGrath, he lost his wicket to McGrath six times. McGrath probably took a third of Aussie wickets while he was playing, so the proportion of times that Sachin got out seems about average.

Going by memory, since I've seen pretty much all his innings vs. Australia since the mid-late nineties, I'd have to agree that I never really saw McGrath dominated. Obviously, he was successful to different degrees with different times, but I don't think I saw Sachin bashing him around at will more than maybe once.

And considering that six out of those nine matches were played on Indian pitches, McGrath handled himself exceptionally well. I'd certainly say McGrath got the better of Sachin than the other way around.
 
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Top_Cat

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You're absolutely right.

He averages 5 in 1997, but 46, 50 and 41 the last three times they faced. He scored two centuries and nine fifites out of nine matches when McGrath was in the squad, so it was a fair effort, but he never got on top of McGrath. Not on any consistent basis. McGrath got the better of him plenty of times. He was dismissed twice for naught during that time, both times by McGrath.

In 18 innings that he played vs. McGrath, he lost his wicket to McGrath six times. McGrath probably took a third of Aussie wickets while he was playing, so the proportion of times that Sachin got out seems about average.

Going by memory, since I've seen pretty much all his innings vs. Australia since the mid-late nineties, I'd have to agree that I never really saw McGrath dominated. Obviously, he was successful to different degrees with different times, but I don't think I saw Sachin bashing him around at will more than maybe once.

And considering that six out of those nine matches were played on Indian pitches, McGrath handled himself exceptionally well. I'd certainly say McGrath got the better of Sachin than the other way around.
Cue someone to bring up dodgy LBW's McGrath got against Sachin in 5......4.......3.........2........
 

DaRick

State Vice-Captain
The teams made a pact to take word of the fielder which aus didnt first and then india followed.
Fine. They made a mistake there. The 'pact' should never have been introduced in the first place.

The whole symonds/singh racial slur was just pathetic, if monkey gets symonds upset then that will do me.
What are you trying to suggest? That racial vilification is acceptable? Remember, it's not about whether it offends you, it is about whether it offends Andrew Symonds. I have about as much right as you do to categorically say that a certain racial slur is offensive or not offensive to someone completely different from me - i.e: none.

What makes Harbhajan's conduct even more unsightly is that he knew the word 'monkey' offended Symonds. Apparently, Symonds had requested that he not use the word during the ODI series in India.

Michael Clarke not to walk when it was clear he was out was just the worst thing Ive ever seen.
Granted, that did look bad. Not quite as bad, though, as Dinesh Karthik's 'classic spit' in Adelaide.

Ive hated the aussie way of sledging, Mcgrath started giving batman a gob full, then lee and now guys like johnson and clark doing it.
Glenn McGrath did sledge, undeniably. However, he should not be used to describe the current Australian team, as he is no longer in the side. Also, prove that Mitchell Johnson and Stuart Clark have been sledging. Neither have been known for it. If you can't prove it, you're simply libelling them.

FWIW, I don't think that sledging is necessarily a positive thing, but at least we don't cross the line into racial villification without escaping serious punishment (just ask Darren Lehmann, who was suspended over five years ago).

Win at all costs.......is a perfect way to discribe Australian cricket, never mind nobody turns up because you win, as long as you win everyone is happy.8-)
They're paid to do a job...that job is to win matches. Obviously, they should win them without indulging in poor conduct, but that objective should be secondary. If these guys don't do that 'job', they get 'sacked'. That breeds the mentality that you describe. In fact, every cricket team ultimately follows that ethos (despite assertions to the contrary).

Besides, do you really want a regression back to the mid-1980's, when Allan Border's 'nice guys' were losing the vast majority of the matches on offer?

Do you honestly think Australia winning 2 WC's without loosing a game, destroying england 5-0, basically winning everything is good for cricket.
Actually, cricket needs a dominant team. Without a dominant team, there is no benchmark for the other teams to overhaul. Overhauling the benchmark (like we eventually did against the West Indies after years of build-up) would improve the standard of cricket, as other cricket teams wisen up to the dominant team's strategies.

IMO, you have a clear case of 'tall poppy syndrome'. That's another aspect of Australia that I despise. We should cherish the majority of victories by the Australian team, rather than denigrate them when they commit the slightest indiscretions.

India winning 20/20 was fantastic for cricket.
Not really. It's led to the giant cash-cows and slog-fests that are the ICL and IPL, respectively, along with the greater proliferation of the 20/20 games.

Here is what I wrote some time ago:

"I don't think that Twenty20 is boring, per se, although it is certainly a wasteful sport, which promotes slogging, Hollywood-esque glamour (witness some of the personalities involved with the IPL, for instance) and fleeting entertainment, resulting in every game becoming as homogenous as the last."

At least in ODI's and Test's, there's more room for technique (not to mention more memorable moments).

The game isnt in a good way at the moment, and the dominance of Australia has a big part to do with it.
I agree that the game isn't in a good way. However, I still feel that the BCCI and ICC (with the former's domineering hyper-capitalist ways and the latter's blatant amorality and incompetence) have a lot more to do with the game's ailing health than the Australian cricket team.
 
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Days of Grace

International Captain
I believe the period of Australia's dominance is coming to an end. You can see the cracks forming since last year's world cup t.b.h. Now they haven't got a decent spinner, which is their first real personnel problem in about 15 years.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
You're absolutely right.

He averages 5 in 1997, but 46, 50 and 41 the last three times they faced. He scored two centuries and nine fifites out of nine matches when McGrath was in the squad, so it was a fair effort, but he never got on top of McGrath. Not on any consistent basis. McGrath got the better of him plenty of times. He was dismissed twice for naught during that time, both times by McGrath.

In 18 innings that he played vs. McGrath, he lost his wicket to McGrath six times. McGrath probably took a third of Aussie wickets while he was playing, so the proportion of times that Sachin got out seems about average.

Going by memory, since I've seen pretty much all his innings vs. Australia since the mid-late nineties, I'd have to agree that I never really saw McGrath dominated. Obviously, he was successful to different degrees with different times, but I don't think I saw Sachin bashing him around at will more than maybe once.

And considering that six out of those nine matches were played on Indian pitches, McGrath handled himself exceptionally well. I'd certainly say McGrath got the better of Sachin than the other way around.
In a test match you are rarely going to see a bowler of Mcgrath's class getting tonked all over. Mcgrath had a lot of success against Tendulkar particularly when he is new at the crease and not settled, For which Credit must go to Mcgrath. But once SRT is settled, Mcgrath has been ineffective.

Not to forget some of the decisions he got were just wrong and kind of flatters Mcgrath's success against SRT:-


In Sydney 2000 he was Dominating Mcgrath in the over before he was given out :-

40.1 McGrath to Tendulkar, two runs, short ball, pulled away thru the
square leg
40.2 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, another short one and Fleming has to go
chasing again, running around from long leg
Fleming would be muttering "no more short ones", with his own range
of expletives of course
40.3 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, but bingo, McGrath "obviously" working
to a "plan", short and yet again pulled thru the square leg
40.4 McGrath to Tendulkar, no run, and here comes another, Tendulkar
plays all coy and ducks very low underneath it
40.5 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, hoho, pitched up this time, and he
plays a pearler of an off drive
40.6 McGrath to Tendulkar, OUT: [/quote[oh dear, seaming in, strikes him quite
high, above the knee, looks high[/B], but Mrs Robinson gives it, and
McGrath goes absolutely berko

India 95/5, Partnership of 26
SR Tendulkar lbw b McGrath 45 (53b 8x4 0x6)

Another lbw in Australia where he was hit on the head by a bouncer and given out.

That said :- I will agree with your overall conclusion that Mcgrath is easily the winner of the battle among the two Giants.
 
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Top_Cat

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In a test match you are rarely going to see a bowler of Mcgrath's class getting tonked all over. Mcgrath had a lot of success against Tendulkar particularly when he is new at the crease and not settled, For which Credit must go to Mcgrath. But once SRT is settled, Mcgrath has been ineffective.
Like most bowlers, surely. :)

Not to forget some of the decisions he got were just wrong and kind of flatters Mcgrath's success against SRT:-


In Sydney 2000 he was Dominating Mcgrath in the over before he was given out :-

40.1 McGrath to Tendulkar, two runs, short ball, pulled away thru the
square leg
40.2 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, another short one and Fleming has to go
chasing again, running around from long leg
Fleming would be muttering "no more short ones", with his own range
of expletives of course
40.3 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, but bingo, McGrath "obviously" working
to a "plan", short and yet again pulled thru the square leg
40.4 McGrath to Tendulkar, no run, and here comes another, Tendulkar
plays all coy and ducks very low underneath it
40.5 McGrath to Tendulkar, FOUR, hoho, pitched up this time, and he
plays a pearler of an off drive
40.6 McGrath to Tendulkar, OUT: [/quote[oh dear, seaming in, strikes him quite
high, above the knee, looks high[/B], but Mrs Robinson gives it, and
McGrath goes absolutely berko

India 95/5, Partnership of 26
SR Tendulkar lbw b McGrath 45 (53b 8x4 0x6)
Yup, that one was definitely dubious.

Another lbw in Australia where he was hit on the head by a bouncer and given out.
That was a weird one. I said at the time that in real-time and from the perspective at the bowler's end, it shouldn't have been given out (I highly doubt Mr Harper would have been able to guarantee the ball was in line) but on replay, the ball was on the way down and would have taken the top of the stumps, I reckon.

That said :- I will agree with your overall conclusion that Mcgrath is easily the winner of the battle among the two Giants.
This I'm not so sure about. Reckon Tendulkar landed plenty of decent hits, myself. Against Warne, Tendulkar the winner, no question. Against McGrath, I reckon it's pretty even. Neither of them made the other look foolish whereas with Warne, injured or not, Tendulkar made mincemeat of his around the wicket bowling in 1997. I mean, most sane batsmen would just nurdle big turning leg-breaks from around the wicket to fine-leg because the risk of a top-edge playing against the spin is pretty high. Tendulkar made a habit of slapping them over mid-wicket for 6 instead. That, sir, is freakin' amazing. Never seen a player before or since do that regularly.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Against Warne, Tendulkar the winner, no question. Against McGrath, I reckon it's pretty even. Neither of them made the other look .
That's true, but one reason why I consider Mcgrath having the edge over SRT is because most of the time he dismissed SRT cheap and this was not limited to Tests alone.
 

Top_Cat

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That's true, but one reason why I consider Mcgrath having the edge over SRT is because most of the time he dismissed SRT cheap and this was not limited to Tests alone.
Ah yes, good point. Wasn't counting ODI's, myself.
 

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