**Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

I think you're been a bit harsh on Broad there Richard. The guy has obvious talent and a great action. While Flintoff is injured who else would you put in the team? Hoggard is really fighting with Anderson for the place so you cant count him either :P

Hoggard is fighting with both for mine. I don't think either Anderson or Broad are currently remotely good enough to play Tests - and I've long thought Anderson probably never will be.

And no, I certainly don't think Broad has a good action at all. Nor all that much else either, currently. Of course he has promise, but so do a litany of players. That doesn't mean they should be picked when they offer little at the current time.

Not to mention his Batting is fairly valuable, and dont say it shouldnt count when you pick a bowling line up. Giles got picked alot more due to the fact he could bat a bit rather than just on his bowling ability.

Giles got picked a lot more than he should have due to the "you need variation" crap. Of course if a bowler can average 20 rather than 9 it's better, but it shouldn't lead to obviously vastly inferior bowlers being picked ahead of good ones, as was the case with Plunkett and Sidebottom. Ideally, your situation is when you have the likes of Cork, Caddick and Gough, all of whom had some innate ability as well as being the best bowlers in the country.

You cant have a team of aging players, you have to bring in younger blood gradually rather than have 3-4 leave at once which can totally decimate a team. Broad is the best of the young bunch so he gets his chance.

Never remotely believed in this. If the young players are good enough, they'll step-up, if they're not, they won't. You won't help matters - you won't make someone not good enough into someone good enough - by picking them.

In any case, it's not like Flintoff, Hoggard or any of these players are ancient or anything remotely resembling it. The only person established in this side who's not likely to be able to play for all that much longer is Vaughan.

 

[Richard]

a completely unfair assessment of a young player with obvious talent. How on earth can you say he has no chance of being the bowler Flintoff is? Even just 5 years ago no-one knew how good a bowler Flintoff was going to turn out to be, so how can you make that judgement about Broad.

Flintoff even in 2001/02 when he was largely useless in terms of penetration had obvious skills. He was tall, he hit the right areas often, he got the ball down quickly, lost little speed off the pitch, and could (didn't very often, but he could) bowl reverse inswing, and even the conventional outswinger.

It simply took until 2004/05 for him to put the package together. Broad possesses obviously less basic skills - he has recently started bowling the conventional outswinger (as I noted earlier in this thread) but he is obviously less accurate than Flintoff was, even at a similar age, he cannot bowl reverse-swing as shown by his utter inadaquecy on non-seaming wickets, and he is nowhere near as quick as Flintoff (and never will be) and clearly doesn't have the "heavy ball bowling" (ie, losing little pace off the pitch) skills Flintoff does and has ever since his remodelled action of 2001/02.

Broad may someday be a good bowler (or he may not) but there's no way he'll ever be as good as Flintoff was - even if it turns-out Flintoff was only that good fairly briefly.

 

[Goughy]

You can argue that for Southee. But I think it's fair that each international side has a prodigy in their lineup to blood to develop into potential match winners. Broad has such potential and I don't see why his selection should be scorned and frowned upon when he hasn't set a foot wrong or bowl an Anderson-like spell. Let the 'boy' be and the longer he stays in the lineup consistently, the faster he will develop into your genuine match winner. You cannot expect him to master his talents from the get go. Take Steyn for example, he got plucked quite young and now he is a genuine threat even at mid 20s.

This England side needs another Flintoff, and I dare suggest Broad is the next potential Flintoff material.

Having said that, don't get to the stage like NZ where a mass exodus of xp means we blood a side with an average age of 24.

Lots of points there and Im not sure I agree with any of them.

Ive liked Broad (if my posts from a year or so are looked at) but he isnt close to being a Test bowlers at the moment and is a long way from being one.

As for this batting so many people talk about. Ill wait until he actually does anything at any level before I give him credit. Certainly hasnt earned any recognition yet.

Like a lot of young players picked, he is selected as he hasnt played enough cricket to prove how ordinary he is.

As Ive noted before, what he offers at the moment is massively outweighed by his weaknesses.

 

[Leslie1]

I only know him Broadly so I won't comment further on him. Goughy and Richard's points are valid if there are better players than Broad that deserves a place in his position ahead of him.

Any news on Flynn? It'll be a shame if he can't make the side against Northamptonshire.

Actually wanting Fulton to do well, even if he's being stuffed around AGAIN in the batting order. Asking someone to find form opening now?

 

[Perm]

Heard on the radio that Flynn is very unlikely to play against Northants, as he had to have a nerve removed from one of his teeth yesterday.

 

[Blakey]

I only know him Broadly so I won't comment further on him.

Perhaps you should have given a little more thought before committing yourself to writing about a player you admit to knowing SFA (guess that one) about.

 

[Flem274*]

Heard its likely Fulton will open with Redmond next FC game. Whats happened to How?

Pretty pissed at the Black Caps management putting the out of form, non opener in the opening postion. James Marshall used to be an opener, he'd be the logical pick but of course when t comes to cricket selections logic died a long time ago.

 

[Flem274*]

I only know him Broadly so I won't comment further on him./QUOTE]

Perhaps you should have given a little more thought before committing yourself to writing about a player you admit to knowing SFA (guess that one) about.

1-0 to Blakey.

 

[Leslie1]

1-0 to Blakey.

What did he say? Anything that actually contributes to the debate or condescending as usual?

 

[Richard]

Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Nooooooooo. Not more bad quoting!

 

[Richard]

Heard its likely Fulton will open with Redmond next FC game. Whats happened to How?

Pretty pissed at the Black Caps management putting the out of form, non opener in the opening postion. James Marshall used to be an opener, he'd be the logical pick but of course when t comes to cricket selections logic died a long time ago.

EDIT: engages brain - May has thirty-one days, not thirty, meaning this is a three-day game and does have some amount of meaning. I was still expecting Northants probably wouldn't pick many if any first-teamers though.

 

[_Ed_]

Looks like Flynn has been named in the XI.

JAH Marshall, MJ Mason, +GJ Hopkins, AJ Redmond, DR Flynn, KD Mills, TG Southee, PG Fulton, LRPL Taylor, JS Patel, *BB McCullum

 

[Richard]

In something resembling batting-order: PG Fulton AJ Redmond JAH Marshall, LRPL Taylor, BB McCullum, DR Flynn, GJ Hopkins, KD Mills, TG Southee, JS Patel, MJ Mason

Northants go with SD Peters, AR Crook, AG Wakely, DJG Sales, NJ O'Brien, J Louw, DS Lucas, DH Wigley, RJ Logan, GG White, JF Brown

That's not the worst side you'll ever see put out. Only Wigley, Logan and White are genuine no-hopers.

 

[Leslie1]

Oh god is Fulton actually competing with Redmond for the opening berth for the 3rd test?

 

[Richard]

If Redmond is dropped and James Marshall kept I'll be very, very, very far from amused.

 

[Leslie1]

Come to think of it, I think Kyle Mills' spot is under threat as well. O Brien is a shoe in with Martin leaving Mason, Southee and Mills to compete for the last spot.

It's Vettori. I can assure you that keeps J Marshall in the team for as long as Vettori is the captain.

 

[_Ed_]

It's Vettori. I can assure you that keeps J Marshall in the team for as long as Vettori is the captain.

Would be very surprised if, barring an excellent century in the very near future, Marshall stays in the team beyond the end of the year.

I think it would be unwise to drop Mills as well.

 

[_Ed_]

We're 12-0 with only 5 runs scored off the bat! Marvellous.

 

[Richard]

Given the weather in recent weeks, I'd not be surprised if the wicket was doing plenty.

 

[Manee]

Steyn was picked young and then dropped. He then learned to bowl at domestic level and was recalled a much improved bowler. It's not the same situation as Southee and Broad as of yet.

He also worked heavily on his action. Chest drive and shoulder rotation being two changes which I have read of.