**Official** Australia in West Indies

[roseboy64]

Depends on the contributions of Bravo, Ramdin and Sammy.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

i think they'll get to 200..or do you mean an extra 200 runs? that could be tough...but they can, with Shiv they can do anything

Nah, 200 in total. Shiv can remain not out, it won't really matter.

 

[Son Of Coco]

would've blown this game out IMO..... 4 down looks much different

not the worse day for Windies..a pretty good one actually for them

trail by a bit more than 300 with 7 wickets in hand... the key is obviously shiv..

our bowlers bowled very poorly...
Lee too many no balls and a tad wide
Johnson - worse ive seen him bowl in a while...lots of half volleys/leg stump stuff
MacGill - getting lots of turn but once again its slow turn and he has to pitch it outside leg for the batsmen to play at it
only Fraz was really threatening on a pitch thats perfect for him

but still in a comfortable position....i'll be happy with two wickets in the morning session tomorrow

question - why is Clark always under bowled? and when will he be given the new cherry?

I've noticed this too, it does seem a bit strange. Johnson's given every opportunity to get it right, even if it doesn't really happen all day, yet Clark can be on fire and still get rotated.

 

[Burgey]

Johnson's got incriminating photos of Ponting, so he gets the new rock.

All the bowlers looked so under done today, even Clark imo. It's just his method is so simple, the difference is less noticeable. Johnson way short of a gallop, likewise MacGill & to some extent Lee.

As for Johnson, apparently he's promised us one inswinger this calendat year. We just have to wait for Xmas - the season fro miracles.

 

[Top_Cat]

I've noticed this too, it does seem a bit strange. Johnson's given every opportunity to get it right, even if it doesn't really happen all day, yet Clark can be on fire and still get rotated.

Probably a few reasons but I'd suspect it's because Midge is far quicker and swings the ball more but needs the new cherry to do it. Clarke bowls exactly the same regardless of whether he has the new ball or not so there's no significant disadvantage to his bowling in giving him an older ball. I guess Punter would also be bowling him with an eye to the future because he'll be around longer if he bowls well.

Was ridiculously overbowled relative to form against India, though. Especially in Sydney.

 

[Burgey]

Dunno mate, I can't say I've ever seen him bowl an over, let alone a spell, where he has consistent'y swung the red ball.
I want him to succeed, because medium to long term we will need him and potentially he could be really good.
Today's probably not a fair gauge though, coz he was way short of work.
Edit: Also thought that was arguably Symonds best test innings - certainly wasn't easy batting there, and he played in precisely the right way for the side. Good on 'im.

 

[Top_Cat]

Dunno mate, I can't say I've ever seen him bowl an over, let alone a spell, where he has consistent'y swung the red ball.

He still swings it more than Clark, though. haha Nah, you're right. Think Punter is trying to encourage him to do so and giving him the new cherry is the best chance he has. I dunno, if a bloke is best as a seam bowler, let him be one and develop swing as he goes like McGrath did and slowly become better.

Edit: Also thought that was arguably Symonds best test innings - certainly wasn't easy batting there, and he played in precisely the right way for the side. Good on 'im.

Yep. Symonds vastly under-rated on this forum and that his innings has only attracted comment from Mr Wright and you (both banana-benders; not that I'm suggesting bias, just that being from the same state you guys would be more apt to notice as I would if, by some miracle, a SACA player gets selected for the Test side ever again) is pretty poor form.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Probably a few reasons but I'd suspect it's because Midge is far quicker and swings the ball more but needs the new cherry to do it. Clarke bowls exactly the same regardless of whether he has the new ball or not so there's no significant disadvantage to his bowling in giving him an older ball. I guess Punter would also be bowling him with an eye to the future because he'll be around longer if he bowls well.

Was ridiculously overbowled relative to form against India, though. Especially in Sydney.

Yeah, I can understand Johnson opening the bowling instead of Clark. I was under the impression Johnson has bowled a lot more than Clark with a lot less success. But I just had a look at the overs bowled in the tests they've played together and it seems this wasn't the case. Each have bowled more overs than the other in innings where they've been taking wickets generally.

 

[chaminda_00]

Pretty sure Burgey is from NSW

 

[Top_Cat]

Pretty sure Burgey is from NSW

Pretty sure I'm an idiot. His 'sunny' disposition fooled me.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Clark is going to take so many wickets on this surface.

 

[Nate]

AWTA.

Put me down for Symonds lovin` btw.

 

[Laurrz]

Clarke bowls exactly the same regardless of whether he has the new ball or not so there's no significant disadvantage to his bowling in giving him an older ball. .

I was thinking that a while ago.. saying that team wise - it is better for Johnson to have the new ball

but now im over that - I think Clark should take the new ball... where Clark might be the same with both new and old ball (he opens for NSW and does well? surely can get more seam movement or even swing if anything) but Johnson is better with the old ball than new ball imo

 

[Craig]

Pretty sure I'm an idiot. His 'sunny' disposition fooled me.

Yeah I mean since when has Sydney been apart of Queensland? Fair enough of Symonds if he played pretty well last night, I didn't see it so I will take your word for it. Unless it is now changed I didn't really rate Symonds as a Test batsman before this Test anyway, I know he made two unbeaten 50's v Sri Lanka, but is a lot easier when a team already has over 400 up, and despite is knock in Sydney there was no way he should of been able to make that much (if umpiring had been right).

That is what I think anyway.

 

[pasag]

I'm a massive Symonds fan, but that innings was one of the more painful things in life you'll see. Granted the pitch seemed to be helpful and Edwards was gunning it (one of the best spells of pure fast bowling I've seen in the past couple of years), but jeez he looked ordinary for a large part of it (not to mention the plumb LBW that wasn't given). Really enjoyed it once he had a licence to go after it though, there were still quite a few swings and misses, but the ones he connected with were awesome. Valuable knock though and he got the runs on the board and worked well with the tail, though probably shouldn't have taken that run before MacGill finally got out.

Johnson's batting was very good as well, he'll get a Test ton one day, there's no doubt of that. His bowling on the other hand wasn't great, he needs to do better than that or give up his spot, tbh.

 

[howardj]

Yeah, if he could take a few poles, he'd be an all-rounder.

Joking.

 

[NZTailender]

In regards to Clark-Johnson. You can just about always rely on Clark for the goods; Johnson is still learning his trade in cricket in not just test but a general level, while Clark can be considered the 'finished product'.

I think it's good giving Johnson more overs than perhaps other captains might give him. If he's bowling REALLY bad I wouldn't over bowl him, but the only way he's going to learn is by bowling a lot. And, tbf, this is the WIndies, not India at home or the ashes.

 

[howardj]

Watched the highlights this arvo. Good to see the Windies showing some fight. Even if you're not as talented as your oppenents, you need to have an 'over my dead body' attitude when you're out there. Further, when you lose or get outplayed, it has to hurt.

 

[Woodster]

Following on from the Clark-Johnson debate, I am exceptionally surprised Clark is not given the new ball at the start of the innings. If Johnson is learning his trade, let him do it as first change and earn the right to have first use of the new ball, which Clark surely has now.

Clark may be effective with the old ball, but will extract more movement with a brand new one, yet more importantly will force the openers to play at virtually every ball. When an opener comes out, it is of great benefit for him to watch a few go by, get a feel of the pitch, assess the pace and bounce and where his off stump is, with Clark they would not be allowed such luxuries. If it isn't working, whip him off and bring the extra pace of Johnson on, but with his bounce and accuracy would be a real handful for the openers.

 

[Laurrz]

Following on from the Clark-Johnson debate, I am exceptionally surprised Clark is not given the new ball at the start of the innings. If Johnson is learning his trade, let him do it as first change and earn the right to have first use of the new ball, which Clark surely has now.

Clark may be effective with the old ball, but will extract more movement with a brand new one, yet more importantly will force the openers to play at virtually every ball. When an opener comes out, it is of great benefit for him to watch a few go by, get a feel of the pitch, assess the pace and bounce and where his off stump is, with Clark they would not be allowed such luxuries. If it isn't working, whip him off and bring the extra pace of Johnson on, but with his bounce and accuracy would be a real handful for the openers.

agreed

besides midge is a lot better with the old ball anyway so it should be a logical choice...all the signs are there for ricky to give the new ball to fraz!!