**Official** New Zealand in England

[Richard]

I think you'll find that O'Brien bowled pretty well in the warm ups - or certainly not far behind Mason who bowled pretty well himself. Frankly, either will provide a similar job; accurate but unpenetrating at international level. Bad bowlers, they are not - international bowlers they aren't either.

While I'm far from convinced Mason is an international bowler either, he's done far less to prove he's not than O'Dire(Brie)n has, and Mason's one game on tour so far produced better results than O'Brien's two.

 

[Richard]

Think how Michael Clarke got blooded in, although he's a prodigy anyway.

Michael Clarke got blooded in too early, before he was a Test-class batsman. Ergo, after his first 5 Tests his form fell away completely and he had to be dropped.

Clarke was first ready for Test cricket after the 2005/06 season (when he scored 398 for once out in the Pura Cup) and he returned to it the following year and has excelled since.

 

[S.P. Fleming]

bloody John bracewell better not pick O'Bien coz the selectors seem to have a thing for him, no matter how terrible he bowls.

 

[99*]

Would rather have Patel in for Southee (if sick) than anyone else.

Want this game to start on time as I'll be getting home from my poker game just in time to watch the first day.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

bloody John bracewell better not pick O'Bien coz the selectors seem to have a thing for him, no matter how terrible he bowls.

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??









Rhetorical question?

 

[Woodster]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??









Rhetorical question?

He has not been particularly impressive in the limited number of matches I have seen him in. He does not seem to have any great pace and his radar was a little off meaning any pressure he did manage to build up was released with a frequent loose delivery. I would like to see more of him before I formed a stronger opinion.

 

[Athlai]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??









Rhetorical question?

He isn't our best but he by fair isn't our worse. He deserves the spot he gets in the team, bowls in good areas and is reasonably reliable, yet he lacks the charisma of Jeetan Patel.

 

[_Ed_]

O'Brien is better than Grant Elliott. And he's better than the post-milkshake Daryl Tuffey.

 

[S.P. Fleming]

Am I the only person who doesn't think Iain O'Brien's ****??

sorry mate put come back to me when hes done something decent in international cricket or at least looks like he could do something decent. If he starts chucking his pies then pietersen will have a pretty good lunch.

 

[Pup Clarke]

And he's better than the post-milkshake Daryl Tuffey.

What?

 

[Scaly piscine]

Cricinfo headline:

Unchanged England look to Panesar


Translation

a) England look to NZ to play Panesar extremely badly
b) We're boned

 

[FBU]

Would rather have Patel in for Southee (if sick) than anyone else.

Want this game to start on time as I'll be getting home from my poker game just in time to watch the first day.

Panesar took 18 wickets at OT in 2 matches although one of them was against the West Indies who all played him with their pads. I would be surprised if Patel wasn't picked. With Martin, Mills and Oram, NZ can afford two spinners. England still have the reputation of not being good at playing spin.

I can't see England winning too many Tests with 4 bowlers.

 

[Athlai]

Seems like it's missing an important few lines.

Unchanged England Look to Panesar and Wonder Why He is so Pathetically Dire in the Field
-"I've seen more co-ordination in an 80yr.+ cheerleading team" -Keven Pietersen

 

[Richard]

Cricinfo headline:

Unchanged England look to Panesar


Translation

a) England look to NZ to play Panesar extremely badly
b) We're boned

Or, possibly, it could be translated as
England look to Old Trafford pitch to turn as it has done the previous 3 seasons and hence make Panesar a threat

In fact, it's about 100% more likely to be that.

 

[Richard]

Panesar took 18 wickets at OT in 2 matches although one of them was against the West Indies who all played him with their pads.

That was at Lord's. They constantly padded-up (and much of it was tailenders there anyway) in the First Test to balls that didn't turn, and never turned all match, but in the Third it actually did turn and he took, rather than was gifted, the wickets.

 

[Zinzan]

Cricinfo headline:

Unchanged England look to Panesar


Translation

a) England look to NZ to play Panesar extremely badly
b) We're boned

I've always been meaning to ask you. What do you think of Panesar as a bowler?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Think how Michael Clarke got blooded in, although he's a prodigy anyway.

Aside from his "prodigy" status, Michael Clarke was blooded in a team much more capable of allowing such a learning experience. Needless to say, Australia is far and away the strongest team in the world and, although it rarely does, can usually afford to carry passengers in the name of "experience".

Also, there's a lot less physical strain on a batsman than a fast bowler. Or at least the kind that could cause serious injury if a bowler is not physically mature enough to handle the strain.

The kid won't have nightmares, if he has that kind of tendency it would have been found out in his debut.

I very much doubt that, because he had an outstanding debut. There wasn't much there that would inspire nightmares.

Southee's potential = bowling + lower order batting. Both are in prime condition with or without him so it might as well be with him in there.

Except they're not in prime condition as yet. That's why he should try to learn a bit more at domestic level first.

 

[Perm]

Southee's potential = bowling + lower order batting. Both are in prime condition with or without him so it might as well be with him in there.

Southee had a slog on his debut, he doesn't have a great deal of talent with the bat. Nowhere near enough to justify the potential all-rounder tag you've given him.

 

[Richard]

TBH, I'd say that slog he had showed that he did, in one respect, have a good deal of batting talent.

Obviously, if he plays the way he has so far in his Test (and presumably lower-levels too) career he won't make many runs. The fact that he looked utterly clueless in his other 2 Test innings to date demonstrates that. Hopefully, however, he's someone who's never taken batting too seriously, because if so that suggests that with more attention paid to it he might actually develop some proper strokes and become better at using the right ones at the right time.

Obviously, his bowling should and presumably will come first. But there's little wholesale work he needs there, it's just a case of bowling more and getting better. Hopefully he can dedicate some time to batting in the near-ish future.

 

[Perm]

Michael Clarke got blooded in too early, before he was a Test-class batsman. Ergo, after his first 5 Tests his form fell away completely and he had to be dropped.

Clarke was first ready for Test cricket after the 2005/06 season (when he scored 398 for once out in the Pura Cup) and he returned to it the following year and has excelled since.

It is unreasonable to expect somebody to be a Test-class batsman right from the outset of their career, especially when they are chosen for Test cricket at such a young age. Clarke was only 23 when he scored 151 in Bangalore, and had already had a reasonable amount of success in ODI cricket before his selection, with his maiden century coming just a few months beforehand. He averaged over 60 in the few Pura Cup games he played in the 2003/2004 season, so he was making strides forward. Perhaps he was picked a little too early, but if it wasn't for his selection, success and then subsequent failure, then maybe he would not have been the Test batsman he is today. I wouldn't neccesarily say Clarke was blooded too early, because he certainly deserved the call-up even though his form fell away sharply after his first few games.

Would love to see him actually score some runs in County Cricket too, would be the next step in proving himself as a classy international batsman if he can dominate the English domestic scene.