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**Official** New Zealand in England

Woodster

International Captain
Vaughan, Bell and even Cook can all dominate the bowling if it's bad enough. What's more, all are far better batsmen than Flintoff, and if Flintoff comes back (which would be a bonus rather than an expectation) it'll be his bowling I'll be keen to be repossessed of, not his batting.
Actually think he is going to be pretty close to full fitness by the time of the first Test against NZ, according to all the chat in the local press about it. He is reported to be hitting the gloves hard now, and probably still a further 10-15% of pace to be put on yet.

Of course bowling a few short spells in the nets or in friendly games is a million miles from fielding all day and bowling a few spells a day in the pressure cooker of a Test match. According to reports he is bowling in 5 over bursts and should be cranking his pace up to maximum speed by the start of the Championship.

I agree it is more his bowling we have missed and I hope he simply replaces Anderson and bats number 7 for us, fitness permitting.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
If a batsman is dropped for Flintoff, the England team will be worse off than in is now as far as I'm concerned. Regardless of how well he bowls, what he takes away from the batting is enormous.
Actually think he is going to be pretty close to full fitness by the time of the first Test against NZ, according to all the chat in the local press about it. He is reported to be hitting the gloves hard now, and probably still a further 10-15% of pace to be put on yet.

Of course bowling a few short spells in the nets or in friendly games is a million miles from fielding all day and bowling a few spells a day in the pressure cooker of a Test match. According to reports he is bowling in 5 over bursts and should be cranking his pace up to maximum speed by the start of the Championship.

I agree it is more his bowling we have missed and I hope he simply replaces Anderson and bats number 7 for us, fitness permitting.
I personally don't think there's any way we're going to be playing Flintoff as part of a 4 man attack any time soon. Certainly not until he's proved his fitness bowling overs for Lancs and possibly not even then. With his fitness issues (is this his 4th ankle op?) & age (now 30) the chances of him being flogged into the ground are very high.

I'd rather not see him play against NZ in the tests at all, certainly not the first one anyway. This may not be the most popular opinion amongst our kiwi brethern, but I don't think we'll need him to beat them in English conditions during our early summer. Far better to build his fitness slowly until SA come along, by which time he'll hopefully either have demonstrated he can be a part of a 4-man attack or have found some batting form from somewhere and replace whichever of Strauss, Bell or Collingwood is struggling the most.
 

FBU

International Debutant
Last 12 Tests
Hoggard - 31 wickets at 41.35
Harmison - 33 wickets at 45.39

Sidebottom - 53 wickets at 25.39
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Last 12 Tests
Hoggard - 31 wickets at 41.35
Harmison - 33 wickets at 45.39

Sidebottom - 53 wickets at 25.39
Is that last 12 tests played in or last 12 overall? Either way I had no idea Hoggard's form was quite so ordinary of late.
 

Flem274*

123/5
C'mon, as of the tour these "ND" boys are officially Black Caps and we would do well to afford them the same kind of support as we did to Jesse Ryder. 8-)

I think blindly we are a genuine chance. Much will depend on whether Flintoff comes back. England is a whole different side when Flintoff is in there with KP. At the moment, one can argue they have only one dominating batsman in KP. The rest are more orthodox and traditional.

We held our own against an England team with their out of form bowlers, only that our out of sorts Bell and Sinclair offset by Sidebottom.

In fact, New Zealand batting and England's bowling are each other's Achilles heel at the moment.

Aside from Sidebottom, there isn't much else to that England bowling attack. It's a shadow of their Ashes bowling lineup.

We just need to hold our own in the batting department, and make sure our bowlers get good use of the Duke ball.

You may argue English bowlers will utilize it better, but they are out of sorts Hoggard, Anderson and Harmison. Thats three bowlers out of sorts from that squad.

On the other hand we have Martin, while not genuine world class, bowls with accuracy, and with Duke ball in English conditions, I don't see why he can't get more wickets. Southee has impressed, and he's economical if he isn't swinging the ball. Kyle Mills is a genuine swing bowler, and he's accurate to boot. It's not rocket science. If you can put the ball consistently in a channel (which all NZ bowlers do to make up for that lack of penetration) you will get a lot of batsmen out in English conditions.

Hopefully we'll win at least one test out of three. That's being optimistic, but it's not as hopeless as a lot of people who rely on stats and pedigree might think. If we can hammer them in ODIs, I don't see why we can't do it in tests. It's essentially the same bowlers and batsmen facing each other. It's a closer series between these two sides than a lot of punters think.

Then again, if Hoggard comes back to form with Sidey and Broad together, it's a whole different story.

I hope How will solidify the opening berth and make it his own. He's been touted with a lot of potential, and at 27, it's that time to come of age.

Ross Taylor must have a big series and Jacob Oram, while dissappointing, must show why he's worth that much in IPL. Bring back some of that form, and if Kyle Mills and Chris Martin bowl with the same venom as the first test in New Zealand, we'll win. :ph34r:

Oh, if I haven't said it enough. I hope Southee, Flynn and Marshall become a nucleus of the test side as much as Vettori (ND), Taylor and Oram.

Flynn will be a revelation in the first test, as he's been through the nervous debut period with his brief stint prior. Captain of the 2004 U19s, he will form the core of the batting for years to come. It's not a matter of if he gets in, its a matter of when. He's had the same wraps on him as Taylor when he first arrived at the domestic scene.

Key aspect about Flynn's game, he scores big tons. Hard man to get out once he gets to 50. A hard-nosed, nuggety batsman.

Let How bring his A game while he captains, and bring that form into the test, and with Marshall at 3 (at this stage I think Vettori will pick Marshall ahead of Fulton) plus Flynn at 4 I think we have a big chance of cementing our batting lineup. Middle order has never been a problem with our side, it's the top 3.

Edit: Rant / blind optimism biased. :P
More rant....

Well to be frank, New Zealand is really rebuilding now, and with that we've so far unearthed a few talents. Our ODIs are fine at the moment, and we don't seem that affected at all in the batting in ODIs.

We've had a huge diet of ODIs over the past few seasons leading up to the world cup, and so we neglected to play enough tests (rankings show New Zealand has played only 30 odd tests compared to 50-60 of other countries over the years).

I think it's good we are rebuilding, and not constantly constipated by the Cummings, Papps, Sinclair, Bells of our game. They were the best because there simply weren't anyone else better.

Now we have a bunch of youngsters, Ross Taylor is the most recent one to step up, and the good thing about them is, they are rated by many as 'talents'.

The old group, aside from Sinclair, were journeymen in my mind. Chris Martin, O Brien still fit in that mould. Say what you like, but Bond is a few step up above these other bowlers.

But now Southee has come into the picture. He's been touted as a permanent fixture of our bowling, and he will only improve from his 5-55 debut and 77 from 40 balls with the bat. That's potential.

I've always applauded our coaching setup (aside from Braces lately) for being able to work with no natural talent sides, Fleming the only classy batsman, during the mid 90s. There was a crisis then too, but we ended presevering with journeymen, some have come through (Martin) but others, simply have one off performances or a series of good performances, and then either break down to injuries, or just lose that form dramatically (Sinclair).

At the moment we have the makings of a nucleus side that is young, raw but "talented", rather than just making up the numbers like sides past.

I prefer to see Daniel Flynn, Jesse Ryder as future world international stars rather than simply think, they got in because there is nobody else good enough.

It's a mentality that I hope Black Caps will eventually destroy, the -no natural talent but toils hard- tag that's been with us since Hadlee retired.

I for one think Black Caps will make their mark much like Sri Lanka did in 96 as a genuine talented side that will be extremely competitive and generate the same kind of crowds and enthusiasm to the grounds as other sub continent sides.

--------------------------------------------------------END------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah he takes after me in my early days (minus the Vettori hate), good lad.:p

I certainly have confidence in these young guys, we just need to give them a fair run and not expect the world of them from the start.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Damn what a rant. Psychopant :ph34r: (refering to myself)

Anyone know what the time difference is like while the test matches are on? And which British tv station is going to broadcast the games? Are there any broadcast of tour games?

I hope I don't miss too much due to late hours.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Damn what a rant. Psychopant :ph34r: (refering to myself)

Anyone know what the time difference is like while the test matches are on? And which British tv station is going to broadcast the games? Are there any broadcast of tour games?

I hope I don't miss too much due to late hours.
Sky, so would imagine you'll probably get their direct feed on your Sky.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Anyone know what the time difference is like while the test matches are on?
You can work that out using this website.
And which British tv station is going to broadcast the games?
Sky Sports (BSkyB) have exclusive rights to all live England cricket, have had for a while and may do forever more (though hopefully not).
Are there any broadcast of tour games?
To my knowledge tour-games in this country are never broadcast and never have been by any station, though something's saying to me that a Lions-v-tourists game very recently might have been - might be completely wrong.

Things might have been different in the 1950s too, of course.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Is that last 12 tests played in or last 12 overall? Either way I had no idea Hoggard's form was quite so ordinary of late.
Nah me neither, although given much of it involved The Ashes 2006/07 I suppose it's not especially surprising.
 

Leslie1

U19 Captain
Sky, so would imagine you'll probably get their direct feed on your Sky.
You can work that out using this website.

Sky Sports (BSkyB) have exclusive rights to all live England cricket, have had for a while and may do forever more (though hopefully not).

To my knowledge tour-games in this country are never broadcast and never have been by any station, though something's saying to me that a Lions-v-tourists game very recently might have been - might be completely wrong.

Things might have been different in the 1950s too, of course.
Apparently the Tests will start at 22:00 hours in New Zealand.
Thanks guys!

I was wondering as well whether the England side will make any changes to their test side when the first test arrives?

Are there any domestic players knocking on the doors of the incumbents that would warrant promotion?

I'd love to see new-ish bowlers in that side, Anderson, Hoggard and Harmison clearly do not cut the mustard during the test series here.

NZ made their chop and change. Are England doing the same?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thanks guys!

I was wondering as well whether the England side will make any changes to their test side when the first test arrives?

Are there any domestic players knocking on the doors of the incumbents that would warrant promotion?

I'd love to see new-ish bowlers in that side, Anderson, Hoggard and Harmison clearly do not cut the mustard during the test series here.

NZ made their chop and change. Are England doing the same?
The only personnel change I'm hoping will be made is Hoggard replacing Anderson (as I said during the Third Test in NZ, not as hopeful there as some are). I also hope, of course, that Strauss will move up two places, with Cook and Vaughan moving down one each. I thought that was a given in NZ, but it turned-out not to be, so I won't be getting my hopes up there. But those hopes are still there, just.

Trotting-out teamsheets around this time in a series does get a tadge tiresome, but I'll do it one last time:
Strauss
Cook
Vaughan
Pietersen
Bell
Collingwood
Ambrose
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
MSP

I look forward immensely to seeing how much the balls swing this season - hoping greatly it will continue on last season, when the balls swung properly for the first time since 2000.
 

FBU

International Debutant
1 Cook
2 Vaughan
3 Pietersen
4 Bell
5 Collingwood
6 Ambrose
7 Flintoff
8 Broad
9 Sidebottom
10 Anderson
11 Panesar
:)
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
(Barring injury) Strauss is going to play, it's fruitless for anyone to hope otherwise TBH.

And if that means Vaughan doesn't open, it's preferable. 8-)
 

FBU

International Debutant
(Barring injury) Strauss is going to play, it's fruitless for anyone to hope otherwise TBH.

And if that means Vaughan doesn't open, it's preferable. 8-)
I would put money on Flintoff making more runs than Strauss.
 

Woodster

International Captain
I personally don't think there's any way we're going to be playing Flintoff as part of a 4 man attack any time soon. Certainly not until he's proved his fitness bowling overs for Lancs and possibly not even then. With his fitness issues (is this his 4th ankle op?) & age (now 30) the chances of him being flogged into the ground are very high.
Where as I would kind of agree with this, there is the argument that at times our third seamer has not always enjoyed the full confidence of our skipper and consequently only bowled around 10 overs in an innings anyway, something Flintoff would be more than capable of with a greater deal of success.

With Collingwood getting more overs and KP also an option there is not as much work for the four specialist bowlers.

The temptation is of course to throw Flintoff the ball whenever things are looking a little dicey and before you know it he has run through 15-20 overs in the day, something Vaughan must be cautious of not doing.

I am sure if we use Freddie in 5 over quick bursts and if possible and necessary increase his workload prior to SA arriving, then NZ would not be a bad series for him to ease into, providing he is fit enough to bowl flat out.
 

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