**Official** New Zealand in England

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Am going to guess that the assumption was based on the 33 in my username? Am just a young'un. Campus life in Palmy is great, am really enjoying it to be honest apart from the fact that there is no bar on campus and you have to fight for the remote if you want to watch cricket.

Nothing to do with the number. I don't think Phlegm is 274 years old... any more...

 

[Richard]

274* years old, surely?

 

[wpdavid]

Never has been, really, ITBT. He's never looked like being as good as Angus Fraser, for example, or even Darren Gough. Has had his moments, and I don't doubt that had he played, say, 1993-2000 rather than 2001/02-2007/08 he'd have done much better with a ball that swung more. But can still see him having been something of a DeFreitas, though DeFreitas would never have managed Nagpur 2005/06 or Adelaide 2006/07, or possibly even Kandy 2007/08.

Hoggard has always been someone who could be very useful indeed as a second opening bowler in more swing(-and-seam)-friendly times, not an attack-leader. He doesn't and never has had the class for that, though full credit to him for ending-up far better than I'd reckoned he was ever going to be in January 2004. And, as you say, considerably better than the Harmisons and Andersons of his time.

All true. But what I was wondering was whether Hoggard's on the wane. And, if so, whether that has slipped through one or two people's radar. Since the 2005/6 tours, we've seen a respectable series at home to SL, a dire home series against Pakistan and a mostly dire series in Australia. Since then, I suppose it's harder to call due to his 4 (iirc) tests being spread over 3 series, but they've been a mixed bag too.

 

[sportychic33]

Nothing to do with the number. I don't think Phlegm is 274 years old... any more...

Thats a great realisation. Although 274* is easier to place to a cricketing event than 33.

 

[Richard]

Oh, I dunno... '32/33 will evoke a response (the same response) accross most cricket followers. 33 isn't quite '32/33 though, unfortunately.

 

[Leslie1]

In conclusion, 274 is a number. So is 32 and so is 33.

Can anyone provide a detailed venue statistics yet on the three test venues?

Or let us know how we can find out about what is the likely conditions we will be facing over there.

On another note, Macca (C McMillan) is on the radio this morning damning the selection of the batsmen. And he reckons we'll probably be 4 down and it might as well be Vettori opening. Sour grapes?

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Or let us know how we can find out about what is the likely conditions we will be facing over there.

Binge drinking culture, some poxy trial about Princess Diana, a touch of snow and long term engineering works on public transport.

 

[sportychic33]

In conclusion, 274 is a number. So is 32 and so is 33.

Can anyone provide a detailed venue statistics yet on the three test venues?

Or let us know how we can find out about what is the likely conditions we will be facing over there.

On another note, Macca (C McMillan) is on the radio this morning damning the selection of the batsmen. And he reckons we'll probably be 4 down and it might as well be Vettori opening. Sour grapes?

I'm sure you could find some venue statistics by using the wonders of Cricinfo.

Quite likely Sour Grapes, don't know how you manage to listen to Radio Sport now days.

 

[FBU]

All true. But what I was wondering was whether Hoggard's on the wane. And, if so, whether that has slipped through one or two people's radar. Since the 2005/6 tours, we've seen a respectable series at home to SL, a dire home series against Pakistan and a mostly dire series in Australia. Since then, I suppose it's harder to call due to his 4 (iirc) tests being spread over 3 series, but they've been a mixed bag too.

Fletcher inherited Gough and Caddick and then changed it to Hoggard and Harmison. Moores has started with Hoggard and Harmison and then injuries enabled him to get Sidebottom in. Strangely enough the revolving door of third bowler has come to a stop with Broad looking very settled in that position and he can bat.

Hoggard and Harmison were sure of their places with Fletcher. If they had bad days they knew nothing was going to change with their number of wickets and experience behind them. Once Moores arrived that security went and when they saw an Ashes winner dropped (Strauss) not many felt safe and that showed in the way they have been batting.
Hoggard is finding that it is hard to get good figures when a bowler is in and out of the team and not sure of your place. Harmison had his eyes opened being a 12th man for the first time.He wasn't happy though Collingwood and Anderson have that experience 19 and 28 times respectively.

Both of them under Moores have not been that good compared to Sidebottom. I can't see either of them coming back, maybe Hoggard as short term injury replacement. Both don't play in ODIs so there is also the chance of them being under-prepared again on tours. I think whoever Moores chooses would be a bowler who also plays ODIs and 20/20s. Both Moores and Gibson like Anderson. It looks like they will give him to the end of the summer to see what happens.

Under Moores -
Harmison - 7 Test 23 wickets at 38.43
Hoggard - 5 Tests 13 wickets at 36.23

Sidebottom 12 Tests 53 wickets at 25.39.

 

[Halfpast_Yellow]

Indeed that answer is correct. Could have gone to Vic or Massey in Wgtn but wanted a change and freedom from parents.

Am going to guess that the assumption was based on the 33 in my username? Am just a young'un. Campus life in Palmy is great, am really enjoying it to be honest apart from the fact that there is no bar on campus and you have to fight for the remote if you want to watch cricket.

Ha, that's interesting , I moved from Palmy down to Wgtn to attend Vic for a change and freedom from parents.

To be honest you aren't missing anything at all by not being at Vic in regards to the campus bar, they changed the decor and atmosphere a while back and it's absolutely horrible now.

Palmy Massey ain't that shabby compared to Vic either. Palmy isn't too bad as well really, I don't mind it much, looking forward to going back there for a few weeks this weekend to chill.

Welly nightlife definitely > Palmy though.

 

[sportychic33]

Ha, that's interesting , I moved from Palmy down to Wgtn to attend Vic for a change and freedom from parents.

To be honest you aren't missing anything at all by not being at Vic in regards to the campus bar, they changed the decor and atmosphere a while back and it's absolutely horrible now.

Palmy Massey ain't that shabby compared to Vic either. Palmy isn't too bad as well really, I don't mind it much, looking forward to going back there for a few weeks this weekend to chill.

Welly nightlife definitely > Palmy though.

Wow that is interesting.
That sucks about the campus bar, when my sister was there it was supposedly quite good.
Never got round to experiencing welly nightlife due to over bearing parents but am really enjoying palmy nightlife so far, though i have heard Wellington is much better.
What degree are you doing?

 

[Leslie1]

Did a sketch today on cricket theme. That's how bored I am with no action.

An interesting recollection, does anyone remember exactly why Chris MArtin had a nightmare with the ball the last time we played in England soils?

Did he struggle with the line and length? Or struggle to control the swing?

Now I know that English uses a Duke ball as opposed to a Kookabura. I'm wondering maybe that's why the likes of Harmison and Anderson struggle overseas because they don't use the Duke ball to get the kind of movement and bounce they want?

So the question is, is Martin going to struggle again in England given that the ball will be different to the one he uses often, and he's not a swing bowler per se, but the ball will swing?

 

[NZTailender]

Leslie, do you have a dA account?

 

[Leslie1]

Do you mean Deviant Art? Nope. I do subscribe to CGtalk society though.

 

[Smudge]

Kiwis, particularly hard-core rugby fans and the media will be sulking if the Black Caps win one test. It will take away their glee of the Black Caps losing 0-3.

What a load of ****. Plenty of my mates are hard-core rugby fans (although I'm not as hardcore as I used to be) and they love seeing the Black Caps get up for a win.

How about just getting over your inferiority complex and stop looking for negativity when it isn't there.

 

[Richard]

An interesting recollection, does anyone remember exactly why Chris MArtin had a nightmare with the ball the last time we played in England soils?

Did he struggle with the line and length? Or struggle to control the swing?

Now I know that English uses a Duke ball as opposed to a Kookabura. I'm wondering maybe that's why the likes of Harmison and Anderson struggle overseas because they don't use the Duke ball to get the kind of movement and bounce they want?

So the question is, is Martin going to struggle again in England given that the ball will be different to the one he uses often, and he's not a swing bowler per se, but the ball will swing?

TBH I don't think Martin's troubles in England (let's not forget - it's far from the only occasion he's had a poor time in Tests) had anything to do with the Duke - it was simply because Martin didn't bowl very well. Not that I was surprised, as I've never thought he was that good a bowler, though obviously he's been better in the last 5-6 Tests that NZ have played over the last 3 years.

Hoggard has had as much trouble swinging the Duke at home 2001-2006 (as has everyone - the damn things didn't swung anywhere near as much as they should in those 6 seasons) as he has swinging the Kookaburra away. And Harmison, well, he's never been a swing-bowler in any case, and has struggled home, away and anywhere else on offer too, as he is also simply not very good.

As for the conditions we're likely to encounter for the series

Can anyone provide a detailed venue statistics yet on the three test venues?

Or let us know how we can find out about what is the likely conditions we will be facing over there.

Well, prediction is always tough, especially these days, but I'll have a go...

I hope the Duke balls, as they did in 2007 for the first time since 2000, will swing properly. Obviously the more overcast the skies the better from that POV, but high-class swing-bowlers with good balls will get swing clear or grey skies. The weather in recent weeks has been excellent (at least, it has down here, not sure about further north and east), with warm sunshine punctuated by the occasional snow shower. The nature of weather here, though, is that April has no bearing on May or June, so we'll just have to see what comes.

The Rose Bowl, where NZ face England Lions in their first proper tour-game (with the IPL players back and against really strong opposition - the counties will tend to pick 4 or 5 first-teamers at best for tourist games), is still less than a decade old and the square ("block") there, last I looked (didn't follow domestic cricket last season as I should have), was still pretty mediocre where batting is concerned, and offered something to bowlers of all types. Not the ideal venue really.

Lord's, the venue for the First Test, has always been thought of as seam-friendly in May. In recent years that hasn't really held true at all, though - between 2002 and 2007 (excluding the games against Zimbabwe in 2003 and Bangladesh in 2005) there were pitches that were generally roundly true, easy-paced and offering little to nothing in the way of seam-movement - Tests against Sri Lanka in 2002 and 2006 (though the latter owed almost everything to absurd numbers of dropped catches) and West Indies in 2007 were drawn, and one against New Zealand in 2004 was won thanks to an unexpected collapse. I'm hoping we'll go back to the 2001-and-before days of green seamers, but I've been hoping that for 6 years now, so I'm rather more in expectance of something that offers little to bowlers of all kinds.

Old Trafford, where the Second Test will be played, has since the relaying of much of the square ("block") before the 2001 season, tended to produce pitches which have had plenty of bounce (though usually true bounce) and not that much seam. There've been exceptions (and only 6 Tests have been played there, with no game in 2003) - in 2004 and 2006 we had uneven surfaces that offered some seam and got worse as the game went on. But my expectation would be that there won't be much in this for the bowlers. The question is, can anyone convert this into a draw - in those 6 Tests in question, there's been just 1 draw... and that was with 1 wicket standing. So there's been no clear draws, even despite the near-enough ever-present threat of rain at this ground.

The Third Test takes place at Trent Bridge, and there's been absolutely no conformity there whatsoever. Since 2000 (the ground missed a Test - inexplicably so in fact - in 1999) we've had...
A draw against Zimbabwe where appalling weather disguised a very flat deck, and Zimbabwe almost snatched victory in, being denied by lost time.
A green seamer against Australia where the Australians ended-up winning fairly comfortably.
An exceedingly flat surface against India where England would nonetheless have won (scores: India 357, England 617, India 424 for 8 - and there were just two dropped catches all game to my memory) but for lost time.
An absurdly uneven, seaming surface against South Africa where the game somehow lasted 5 days but the toss decided it, and England won the toss.
A surface that turned, more so as the game wore on, against New Zealand which England won fairly well.
A surface that was fairly flat but ended in a 3-wicket victory over Australia.
A surface that turned, more so as the game wore on, against Sri Lanka, which unsurprisingly meant Sri Lanka won.
And a surface that offered a whole lot of seam early on and where the seam gradually disappeared over the opening day to leave a very flat pitch for the rest of the game.
So really, it's anyone's guess what we'll get here this year.

 

[Prince EWS]

TBH I don't think Martin's troubles in England (let's not forget - it's far from the only occasion he's had a poor time in Tests) had anything to do with the Duke - it was simply because Martin didn't bowl very well.

Despite the fact that he openly admitted he was struggling to control that particular ball?

 

[Prince EWS]

Did a sketch today on cricket theme. That's how bored I am with no action.

That's really impressive. Is art something you plan on progressing with as a career option or do you just do it for fun?

Sorry to go off topic.

 

[pasag]

Very nice pic.

Selector Impatience Plagues Black Caps btw.

 

[Richard]

Despite the fact that he openly admitted he was struggling to control that particular ball?

Yes, I remember that well. Some bowlers say they struggle to control the white ball too - doesn't mean they neccessarily know what they're talking about. The truth is bowlers who think they struggle with the white ball actually struggle with the difference in the wide rule between First-Class and one-day cricket.

And I think Martin struggled not because he couldn't control the swing of the Duke, but because he didn't bowl very well. Much of the time he failed even to swing it at all - it wasn't easy to swing the damn thing for any bowler between 2001 and 2006.