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**Official** England in New Zealand
- Thread starter James
- Start date
99*
International Debutant
I know that, everybody knows that. It is just showing that, despite people saying otherwise Vettori can take wickets. I base the fact that Vettori is the best bowler in NZ on other things, like the number batsmen he frustrates into making mistakes with the other bowler, his economy rate (which doesn't matter that much in tests but still a lot better than other NZers), etc etc.
Pretty far away. He was the other half of the U19s attack this year with Southee the main destroyer. He won the speed gun competition two years ago.
He's yet to play in first class cricket.
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Flem274*
123/5
Trent Boult is a while away yet. Needs to make his domestic debut first. He's only 18 but looks an awesome bowler though, he's all about attack, attack, attack.
Vettori has many quality bowlers around him. James Franklin isn't far off world class in tests, Kyle Mills is all class in ODIs and coming along nicely in tests, Chris Martin is reliable and Tim Southee looks to have some serious potential and would definitely stroll into all U-19 sides around the world and would be talked up as having the goods by every test nation.
Ah. Good prospect for the future you reckon? I'm reading his cricinfo profile and it says Wasim is his favourite cricketer, haha, if he will be even half as good I'll be a happy man.
Flem274*
123/5
Similar to Wasim in a few respects (people who take this as comparing/calling him Wasin can GAGF, I'm not).Ah. Good prospect for the future you reckon? I'm reading his cricinfo profile and it says Wasim is his favourite cricketer, haha, if he will be even half as good I'll be a happy man.
To sum up Boult:
-Swings the ball alot
-Constant attack
-Slightly innacurate, barring his excellent yorker
-Decent pace, will probably, excluding injuries, bowl in the 140s consistently at his peak
Of course, a long way to go yet but there is excellent potential there. He and Southee make an excellent duo. Both from ND too, bastards. CD need to steal one.
Flem274*
123/5
Our full strength side is pretty awesome:
How
Ingram
Sinclair
Hay
Taylor
Oram
Griggs
Lythe
Thompson
Mason
Sherlock
Not a bad bowling unti though Thompson in List A>>>>>>>than Thompson in FC. You can have Tim Weston and we'll take Boult. Weston averages over 40 so you can't complain...much.
ND need a batting order though. Look at them full strength.
Wilson
Watling
Merchant
Marshall
Flynn
McGlashan
Vettori
Martin (Bruce, not Chris for those who don't know)
Yovich
Aldridge
Southee/Arnel
You could definitely do with Weston as a batsman.
Flem274*
123/5
Dunno. Yovich and Aldridge IIRC have scored decently in FC cricket.
Flem274*
123/5
If he stays injury free then yes he has the ability. He'll have to join the que now though. We have a decent amount of good bowlers.
In England this series might be a case of who gets bowled out sooner. Their early seasoned wickets tend to favor the seam bowlers, and if Ashes 05 is any guide, I think we're going to get killed if we don't have technically sound batsmen. This is why Bell and Sinclair CANNOT be there, Bell doesn't know where his off-stump is and so leaves the delivery that just hits top of off stumps, and Sinclair is just awful with bouncers.
I hope the selectors select batsmen that knows their footwork inside out and can stick around ALA Richardson, so they can blunt the new Duke balls.
I hope the selectors select batsmen that knows their footwork inside out and can stick around ALA Richardson, so they can blunt the new Duke balls.
Halfpast_Yellow
U19 Vice-Captain
Martin was horrible with the Duke balls last England tour, hope he has that sorted this time.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
The soil, I'd imagine. Though many of the wickets are drop-in now too, are they not? You'd imagine with a drop-in you'd have a better chance of preparing moreoreless exactly what you want.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I don't think the fact that Sri Lanka are the only team he's done terribly well against is much more than coincidence TBH. He's most often tended to have favourable conditions when playing them - both in Sri Lanka (less surprisingly) and New Zealand (more so). It's not like he's never had good games against other teams though.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
I don't really agree TBH. Vettori's back was not a one-off injury thing, it's something that's always been there and has been manageable to different extents at different points in his career.(Feel free to label me a Vettori basher)
So he's in the side as our batsman then? Or would you rather he's our devastating wicket taking bowler (which he was when he first started before succumbing to back injury in '99), or a batsman who bowls stock deliveries?
140 odd of his first test wickets had come really quickly but has stagnated since breaking down and having to tweak his action. He's not the same bowler after that. Now he's seen as a more 'stock' bowler, keeping economy rates down and holding up one end to frustrate batsman. I'm sure he wants to be seen as the best spinner in the world, not just the best "left-arm" spinner, as there aren't much left armers around anyway.
The problem first surfaced in 1999. Yet I'd say you can divide Vettori's career into 3 parts, and there is no sea-change at 1999.
Part one saw him do reasonably well, between his debut and November 2001.
Part two, March 2002 to July 2004, where his back caused him problems often, saw him do quite awfully - out of 19 games, he had 1 good one and in the other 18 took 25 wickets at 76.48.
Part three, starting in November 2004, so far contains 18 games, though this might as well be 15 as he's bowled 8, 2 and 1 overs in 3 of them. This spans 3-and-a-half years, and New Zealand have barely played. I don't feel he's done particularly badly - very rare indeed has been the turning pitch, and any fingerspinner will be reduced to a stock-bowler under such conditions. He's performed the role very well, and what's more has also blocked-up an end very effectively: conceding less than 2.6-an-over on 7 out of 15 occasions; 2.86-3.26-an-over on another 7; and just once being genuinely badly expensive, a game in which Australia slogged aiming (and failing) to beat atrocious weather.
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Athlai
Not Terrible
Jeez all the stat-bashing is a great irritant on CW. Sure it's a fantastic guide but at the highest level more often than not you should be able to see who is the best without the statistics. Just because Vettori has a **** bowling average people are sending him out to hang when in all honesty he's probably the most intelligent looking bowler in the world at the moment. In that same Warne-esque way he works batsman out, knows how to get them and employs it, unlike Warne he can neither generate prodigious spin nor has the best attack in the world to help him, Vettori though has the best use of variations seen in cricket today. To suggest he isn't the best bowler in NZ (excluding Bond) is pretty poor form. While Franklin averages better in Test cricket I would definitely say that Vettori is the greater bowler. I am personally a massive Frankin fan, he bowls wicket taking spells like all good swing bowlers, yet that doesn't make him a great, because when the balls doing nothing he can struggle. Against Vettori batsman always struggle to make runs (aside from very very few exceptions) they just play him intelligently, as Rich always says finger spin in Test cricket can only do so much, and Vettori does as bloody much as he can with it.
He is New Zealand's best bowler easily. Maybe we should drop him just to show the sceptics how valuable he really is to our team, because I can absolutely say for sure that we would be slaughtered.
He is New Zealand's best bowler easily. Maybe we should drop him just to show the sceptics how valuable he really is to our team, because I can absolutely say for sure that we would be slaughtered.