***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08

[silentstriker]

Australia haven't beaten India in a ODI for a while. Last one was washed out obviously and the one before that Laxman guided India to a 300+ score and victory in the end.

You Aussies are way too spoiled if you think that's 'a while'.

Try going 15 years in between overseas Test wins (not series mind, just a Test).

 

[Top_Cat]

Difference is Lee's generally low positiong when bowling with that long stride, so he's generally going to err on the side of fullness, whereas other guys with ordinary radars aren't as low at the bowling crease.

Yup, exactly. Plus, I challenge anyone to deliberately bowl a beamer and for it to come out at the same speed as your usual ball. It's bloody hard to do.

 

[pasag]

You Aussies are way too spoiled if you think that's 'a while'.

Try going 15 years in between overseas Test wins (not series mind, just a Test).

Well we haven't beaten India in an ODI at Brisbane in 16 years

 

[BoyBrumby]

Yup, exactly. Plus, I challenge anyone to deliberately bowl a beamer and for it to come out at the same speed as your usual ball. It's bloody hard to do.

Well, it's hard for us hacks, obviously, but I've no doubt the best can do it. Clearly malign intent is impossible to prove, but, for instance, Wasim Akram sent a particularly evil one down to Chris Adams in a one day final up here back when Adams was playing for Derbyshire (1993, IIRC) that hit Adams on the shoulder. Adams just happened to have accused Wasim of ball-tampering a few weeks before.

&, of course, Lee himself, shall we say, lost his grip and sent one down to Razzaq, who'd coincidentally beamed Brett during the Australian dig.

 

[Nate]

Have been a few coincidental ones for sure. With BB here.

 

[Top_Cat]

Well, it's hard for us hacks, obviously, but I've no doubt the best can do it. Clearly malign intent is impossible to prove, but, for instance, Wasim Akram sent a particularly evil one down to Chris Adams in a one day final up here back when Adams was playing for Derbyshire (1993, IIRC) that hit Adams on the shoulder. Adams just happened to have accused Wasim of ball-tampering a few weeks before.

&, of course, Lee himself, shall we say, lost his grip and sent one down to Razzaq, who'd coincidentally beamed Brett during the Australian dig.

Think one should apply Occam's Razor in a situation like this. To be able to bowl a beamer on command would surely require practice as it'd use muscular and skeletal levers as well as ball grip in a different way than the normal ball, especially if the usual pace is to be maintained. The deliberate practice of bowling a beamer would surely impact on muscular areas in the way as to affect the 'normal' bowling action too. Your hypothesis also conveniently neglects to mention the other beamers by Lee where there was no apparent revenge motive such as last night's or the beamer to Brendon McCallum in NZ or the one to Marc Trescothick in England.

Obviously one can never be sure what's in the heart of another man but this is conspiracy theory stuff.

 

[Top_Cat]

Have been a few coincidental ones for sure. With BB here.

Seriously, name them. The only one I can think of is the aforementioned to Razzaq.

 

[pup11]

Tomorrow is the big game and the Aussies better hit their straps, its really important that the guys win this series for Gilly and Hoggy, it won't be right to see them leave on a disappointing note, it won't be easy because the pressure is gonna be on us, but we just have to come up with a team-effort and if all the guys play to their potential and ability then we should do well, c'mon boys do it for Gilly and George.

 

[Jono]

HELL YES! SACHIN YOU ****ING LEGEND!

Sorry for such a late reaction, but I only just finished watching the whole game on tape after I handed in my take-home exam on Monday morning without sleep. Somehow managed to have no one tell me the scores, get home, and watch the game.

I hope Sanjay Manjrekar can shut the **** up from now on, and just let Sachin do what he does best, play glroious cricket.

Brilliant win by India, so good.

 

[Nate]

Seriously, name them. The only one I can think of is the aforementioned to Razzaq.

Feel like there have been a few, but tbh can't name any specific examples at this point. That's his second to Sachin iirc, bowled two to McCullum aswell, and some to Harris, Wiseman and one to Tresco. That's a few, will try to recall any possible revenge motive.

 

[pup11]

Seriously, name them. The only one I can think of is the aforementioned to Razzaq.

I can remember one instance when Akthar bowled a beamer at Dhoni, during a test in Pakistan and he didn't even apologise to Dhoni after bowling that beamer, so one can put it down as an intentional beamer.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Think one should apply Occam's Razor in a situation like this. To be able to bowl a beamer on command would surely require practice as it'd use muscular and skeletal levers as well as ball grip in a different way than the normal ball, especially if the usual pace is to be maintained. The deliberate practice of bowling a beamer would surely impact on muscular areas in the way as to affect the 'normal' bowling action too. Your hypothesis also conveniently neglects to mention the other beamers by Lee where there was no apparent revenge motive such as last night's or the beamer to Brendon McCallum in NZ or the one to Marc Trescothick in England.

Obviously one can never be sure what's in the heart of another man but this is conspiracy theory stuff.

Well as I understand Occam's Razor it can basically be summarized as that when a multitude of possibilities exist the simplest one is usually correct. So, by applying it, had Lee's beamer last night been his first one might say, yes, a slip of the fingers; give him the benefit of the doubt. But there's a pattern forming here, isn't there? I can personally think of no other bowler currently (or ever actually) who sends down so many. Let's look at the match situations when he beamed other people: Sachin nervous on 98, never having made an ODI ton in Oz & the game slipping away from Oz; Australia defending a low total against England when Tres got his. I haven't seen either of the McCullum ones, so can't comment, but does it really require such a huge leap of imagination to believe he may have slipped any of them in deliberately?

One should also take account of the nature of fast bowlers. The best ones are aggressive by nature, it's a physically demanding discipline so adrenaline is pumping and to bowl any short-pitched delivery with genuine pace is to know that one might injure the batsman. All that considered is it not perhaps possible that in the heat of the moment reason sometimes evaporates and a beamer might slip out?

 

[silentstriker]

Seriously, name them. The only one I can think of is the aforementioned to Razzaq.

1. One to Tendulkar on 98
2. One to Razzaq when he copped one earlier
3. Four times in one season to New Zealand batsmen in his first tour (twice to McCullum)
4. Tendulkar in 2005
5. One to Paul Wiseman
6. One to Chris Harris
7. One to Trescothik

That's the list. You'd have to look at the match situation in each one to see if any of them were at a suspect time.

I for one just think it slips out of his hand more than most other bowlers, but there is no denying his history. Maybe I'm naive, but he just doesn't seem like that type of person.

 

[aussie]

Doesn't expalin the post Warne/McGrath comment though, which was a load of dribble tstl.

In reference to the batting it is though. Given that i have sensed this Australian summer that the batting has lost some of that invisibility & currently doesn't have that self belief to get themselves out of the obvious slump that some of the batsmen are in. i.e i don't think if the batsmen get off to a bad start in the 2nd final they can produce a Jo'Burg 03 performance or a VB Series 06 2nd final performance.

But i am hoping to be proven wrong..

 

[Jono]

And what a knock by Sachin!!!! It was just amazing how well he was able to control the whole innings..... The Bevans and Husseys would have been proud of how well he was able to control and pace the innings.. It combined moments of genius of the sort that only the real greats of the game can create along with amazing know-how of how to pace an ODI chase of the sort the great finishers of the game would be proud of...... Truly amazing!!!

He not only paced the innings well, but combined that with opening the batting, something Bevan, Hussey and other finishers (as great as they are) didn't do.

His knock was immense, and Rohit's support was critical as well. You know Rohit was batting well with his two sublime staight drives early in his innings. Great talent.

 

[Arjun]

I hope Sanjay Manjrekar can shut the **** up from now on, and just let Sachin do what he does best, play glroious cricket.

Manjrekar Hai Hai's apprehensive batting seems to have crept into his commentary.

 

[Jono]

I'm not sure if you were referring specifically to television commentary or his articles as well, but thankfully I don't have to listen to Sanjay Manjrekar whilst watching the cricket here (Yes, I'd even take the worst channel 9 commentary members over Manjrekar... including Healy!), but his comments about how people are "scared" to talk about Sachin's recent failings when chasing in ODIs was pathetic. Firstly, its mentioned all the time and the commentators (Chappell, Slater, Nicholas) on Channel 9 brought it up during the chase saying Tendulkar will be looking to overcome it, and secondly its unsurprising for him to say something like that because he enjoys sticking the knife in Indian cricket whenever he can.

Whatever his reason, be it bitterness, desire to look unbiased, or want of attention, it often results in him looking like a dickhead.

 

[Jono]

see what happens when you don't lose early wickets against Australia? You actually give yourself a chance.

Whilst losing wickets against other teams is fine? Its stating the obvious saying that losing wickets early against Australia is damaging, but India lost early wickets against Australia in Sydney last week and still scored 299.

Chawla in, Kumar opening the bowling. I know a lot of people wanted to see Chawla play earlier, but is a final really the time to give a guy his first game of the series? And why Kumar and not Pathan?

I actually don't mind ODI cricket when it's taken seriously but the teams that are being selected of late by every country are turning me off it quite a bit.

Honestly, do you think Dhoni made those moves for any other reason than tactically? Because if you do, I'd love to hear them. He didn't open Praveen Kumar for ****s and giggles, he was taking it very seriously, and obviously had a hunch that Irfan would be better than Praveen Kumar when the ball got older.

Turns out that Chawla bowled well, Kumar got wickets and Pathan was horrible with the ball. Glad you're not India's captain

 

[Arjun]

I'm not sure if you were referring specifically to television commentary or his articles as well, but thankfully I don't have to listen to Sanjay Manjrekar whilst watching the cricket here (Yes, I'd even take the worst channel 9 commentary members over Manjrekar... including Healy!), but his comments about how people are "scared" to talk about Sachin's recent failings when chasing in ODIs was pathetic. Firstly, its mentioned all the time and the commentators (Chappell, Slater, Nicholas) on Channel 9 brought it up during the chase saying Tendulkar will be looking to overcome it, and secondly its unsurprising for him to say something like that because he enjoys sticking the knife in Indian cricket whenever he can.

Whatever his reason, be it bitterness, desire to look unbiased, or want of attention, it often results in him looking like a dickhead.

I've seen Sanjay Manjrekar bat out painfully long g50's at over a century of deliveries, showing his technical prowess without being useful to the team. I've also heard him carry that forward with comments like this one

With the South Africans scoring over 600, the Indians will have a tough task to save this Test

This was against that weak South African team that came in 2004, in India, on a flat deck. Sehwag and Gambir smashed a double-century opening partnership. We've heard him getting apprehensive more than a few times, only for Tesm India to prove him wrong. What put me off the most was his blatant criticism of the Indian team and establishment during the Sydney Test fiasco.

 

[jeevan]

Well we haven't beaten India in an ODI at Brisbane in 16 years

I found this so hard to believe that I had to look it up. And it's true!

Hope it rains today and washes off game just so this stupendous streak can be extended for another eight years or so.