***Official*** Commonwealth Bank Tri-Series 2007-08

[adharcric]

I was talking to a cricketer friend from Delhi half an hour ago. He felt that Dhoni is not comfortable with the seniors around as it dilutes his importance. He would rather take his chances with the youngsters and get credit for grooming the youngsters, believing in them, have a team solidly behind him accentuating his leadership qualities rather than have seniors who will eventually hog the limelight with sheer performance.

He felt Dhoni would rather have even Sachin out of the side but he is still not BIG enough to say it yet but it will come at the first sign of fallibility by the Little Master. In the meantime dont expect Dhoni to go overboard in lavishing praise on Sachin but be prepared for tongue in cheek remarks of criticising the top order every time Sachin fails. He also mentioned that if Dhoni can have his way, Dravid and Ganguly may have played their last odi's.

Interesting thoughts.

No offense but I'm not buying that just yet. Love these conspiracy theories and how they completely disregard the possibility that seniors actually are distractions for a younger captain in the dressing room. I'm not suggesting anything but someone could easily turn this story to make Ganguly look bad and it would seem just as ridiculous.

Does your friend have inside knowledge of the dressing room or is he just having a good time with these theories?

 

[adharcric]

I agree with the concept of having a good fielding side but you cant win games with eleven good fielders. Someone has to score the runs and someone has to take wickets. Batting and bowling skills have to be kept in mind and weighed alongwith the fielding skills.

You make it seem as if the likes of Sharma, Tiwary, Raina, Gambhir and Uthappa are specialist fielders incapable of holding a bat. Yeah, they don't have the credentials of Ganguly, Tendulkar and Dravid but they may be good enough for ODI cricket, time will tell. Certainly, they have the talent and they are among the best batsmen in India. Of course, fielding is important and it's difficult to create an aggressive fielding unit when you have to hide two or three key players in the field. By the way, fielding actually can win games in modern-day ODI cricket. That's been a huge reason for Australia's success and I've certainly noticed that our bowlers have been able to get away with more poor deliveries than usual just because of who's in the field. That doesn't necessarily mean dropping Ganguly and Dravid was right but please don't make it seem like this line of reasoning is ********.

 

[jeevan]

You make it seem as if the likes of Sharma, Tiwary, Raina, Gambhir and Uthappa are specialist fielders incapable of holding a bat. Yeah, they don't have the credentials of Ganguly, Tendulkar and Dravid but they may be good enough for ODI cricket, time will tell. Certainly, they have the talent and they are among the best batsmen in India. Of course, fielding is important and it's difficult to create an aggressive fielding unit when you have to hide two or three key players in the field. By the way, fielding actually can win games in modern-day ODI cricket. That's been a huge reason for Australia's success and I've certainly noticed that our bowlers have been able to get away with more poor deliveries than usual just because of who's in the field. That doesn't necessarily mean dropping Ganguly and Dravid was right but please don't make it seem like this line of reasoning is ********.

The Indian batting unit in the CB series has left a lot to be desired. It has featured collapses or mini-collapses in each of the matches, relying on a big knock or partnership from Gambhir / Sharma / Dhoni.

Nobody is against the concept of younger players, the bowling unit is an example of a reasonably disciplined group and so there are no calls for Kumble/AA/Zaheer to come back.

 

[jeevan]

No offense but I'm not buying that just yet. Love these conspiracy theories and how they completely disregard the possibility that seniors actually are distractions for a younger captain in the dressing room. I'm not suggesting anything but someone could easily turn this story to make Ganguly look bad and it would seem just as ridiculous.

Does your friend have inside knowledge of the dressing room or is he just having a good time with these theories?

Is part of any leadership assignment, not to fire people just because they are not perfect for your own personal situation. Even in cricket, Graeme Smith is an example of a very young captain who led a said containing many established stars and got the best out of them (Kallis,Pollock,Gibbs, Boucher). Ponting himself for sure had a superstar (Warne) who actively wanted his job and didnt approve of certain things (coach) but yet carried on, mostly succesfully. Is why they are generally regarded favorably as captains.

If you mean that the senior players were intentionally disobedient etc, would be another matter. But we dont know that any of them is actually guilty of that either.

 

[Jnr.]

The Indian batting unit in the CB series has left a lot to be desired. It has featured collapses or mini-collapses in each of the matches, relying on a big knock or partnership from Gambhir / Sharma / Dhoni.

Nobody is against the concept of younger players, the bowling unit is an example of a reasonably disciplined group and so there are no calls for Kumble/AA/Zaheer to come back.

Keep in mind that the batting units in all three teams have not flattered in the series. Most batsmen are struggling for runs in this series, not just the inexperienced Indians.

 

[Top_Cat]

Keep in mind that the batting units in all three teams have not flattered in the series. Most batsmen are struggling for runs in this series, not just the inexperienced Indians.

Exactly, this series has been one of the more bowler-friendly series' I've ever seen. There's been some juice in the pitches and the bowlers have been really good.

 

[howardj]

Keep in mind that the batting units in all three teams have not flattered in the series. Most batsmen are struggling for runs in this series, not just the inexperienced Indians.

So the Indians got out to absolute cracking deliveries yesterday did they? I don't think so. Their batting is diabolical, along with SL's. I mean, 4 for 60 or 5 for 90 every game against the Aussies - that's not international standard. Clark, Lee, Johnson and Bracken are good, but they're not all time greats.

 

[SJS]

No offense but I'm not buying that just yet. Love these conspiracy theories and how they completely disregard the possibility that seniors actually are distractions for a younger captain in the dressing room. I'm not suggesting anything but someone could easily turn this story to make Ganguly look bad and it would seem just as ridiculous.

Does your friend have inside knowledge of the dressing room or is he just having a good time with these theories?

I dont know mate. Whats the basis of what he is saying. Could be pure gut feel.

By the way, he is a very well known cricketer who played for India with distinction.

I dont buy it too but its still a queasy feeling.

On top of that read this in today's papers. Right or wrong it does make one feel uncomfortable as a lover of Indian cricket.

Viru on wrong side of Dhoni’s instincts
​

Adelaide, February 17: Virender Sehwag is miffed. He’s recovered completely from the hip strain and was available to play today’s game against Australia but didn’t find a place in the playing XI. Technically, he was dropped from the team and the senior India batsman is certainly unhappy over the treatment meted out to him.

Skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni wanted to play an extra bowler on the flat Adelaide wicket to put pressure on the out-of-form Australian batsmen. He got his reading right, but only picked a wrong batsman to drop. By order of form, it should have been his deputy Yuvraj Singh who should have made way for that extra bowler after a horrendous string of failures on this tour.

Dhoni, however, was adamant that Yuvraj Singh, who came into form with 26 before gifting his wicket away, was the right choice. “We’ll not rest him for now. He is a part of the team and he’ll play all the games,” thundered Dhoni.

But why Yuvraj cannot be dropped defies logic and a blind backing by his skipper is touching the limits. Sehwag, in comparison, has had his share of success, scoring a big hundred to save India the Test match at this very venue but obviously got on to the wrong side of Dhoni’s instincts.

Interestingly, Sehwag had declared himself fit in the morning, but Dhoni had a slightly different theory. “Viru wasn’t 100 per cent fit. I was very keen to go in with five bowlers in the coming games against Sri Lanka so I thought if Viru wasn’t 100 per cent, then why not in this game? It paid off and the bowlers bowled well though we had to use Yuvraj because we were not really quick with the over-rate with four fast bowlers,” he said.

Now, how fit Yuvraj Singh is can be assessed by his positioning at mid-off, obviously trying to protect his left-knee. If Sehwag is not 100 per cent fit, so is Yuvraj.​

 

[SJS]

You make it seem as if the likes of Sharma, Tiwary, Raina, Gambhir and Uthappa are specialist fielders incapable of holding a bat.

I never said that. Read again.

My whole point is that we have seen various excuses in combination or by themselves being used in India to leave out cricketers from the side and also to include them. These could be age (too young and inexperienced or too old and time to build for the future), fielding ability, running between the wickets, not aggressive enough (or too aggressive maybe) etc etc. I have seen these used against players of the caliber of Mohinder Amarnath, VVS Laxman, Saurav Ganguly, Anil Kumble and tried unsuccessfully against Tendulkar.

The same have been used to keep out lesser known players too but I quote these because of their stature and contributions with bat and ball to make the point that when selecting a team, the overall package a player offers as well as the overall package a team needs can be forgotten at times.

Moreover, in places like the subcontinent where the politics involved in cricket is so dirty you dont even want to know about it and the money involved for being in a position of power (selector, coach, captain) etc is so obscenely massive, its very easy to use these changing goal posts to get the team one wants for one's own motives (not the same as team interests).

Its easy to talk of conspiracy theories but the world of cricket in India and Pakistan is so murky that its impossible to talk to people who are involved without getting a strong whiff of the stink.

I have no reason to want to spread conspiracy theories and it gives me no pleasure to say such things here on a public forum but the sheer disgust at some of the goings on at times forces things out of one.

I once mentioned the name of a leading cricketer when quoting what he had said in confidence and it blew in my face. Hence I am careful not to name people I talk to anymore. Hence I cut and paste from newspapers online as and when such a news item appears just to make the case. Surprisingly, in so many cases, sooner rather than later, something does come out in the press.

 

[Johnners]

So the Indians got out to absolute cracking deliveries yesterday did they? I don't think so. Their batting is diabolical, along with SL's. I mean, 4 for 60 or 5 for 90 every game against the Aussies - that's not international standard. Clark, Lee, Johnson and Bracken are good, but they're not all time greats.

Would argue that last sentence. In terms of ODI Bowling, Lee is well on his way to being a great. He & Bracken are way more than just "good" ODI bowlers.

 

[jeevan]

Keep in mind that the batting units in all three teams have not flattered in the series. Most batsmen are struggling for runs in this series, not just the inexperienced Indians.

That may be correct, but is not good enough to beat Australia. Indian batting yesterday lost a game that the equally inexperienced bowling unit had almost delivered on a platter.

 

[SJS]

That may be correct, but is not good enough to beat Australia. Indian batting yesterday lost a game that the equally inexperienced bowling unit had almost delivered on a platter.

And THAT is why it hurts so much.

Its the tragedy of Indian cricket that when their batting has been strong, the bowling has not been at its best and sometimes, though less often, it is vice versa.

 

[howardj]

Would argue that last sentence. In terms of ODI Bowling, Lee is well on his way to being a great. He & Bracken are way more than just "good" ODI bowlers.

But mate, it's 4 for 70 EVERY MATCH against Australia, or even worse.

Is that international standard batting?

No way.

 

[Top_Cat]

But mate, it's 4 for 70 EVERY MATCH against Australia, or even worse.

Is that international standard batting?

No way.

Whilst it's true that the Indians' shots yesterday were ordinary, the stuff between the shots was where the really good bowling is being done. Johnson, for example, had all of the Indian lefties in real trouble just with raw pace and the shots he got wickets with weren't great balls but in the context of 'bowl tightly then throw him the wide one' tactics. Hopes was pretty tight too and Bracken was brilliant. The SL batsmen have been tied down similarly. The Aussie batsman have been out to a mix of ordinary shots and getting out to some really good balls. To me, this is less sustainable and whilst Pathan and Sharma keep bowling as well as they have, they'll still be hard to get away. If either or both have a bad day, I think India will go the journey.

Sharma's pace has been really quite shocking, though. He manages to bowl 150km/h+ with what appears to be quite an orthodox action and he's all of 19 years old. He's reminiscent of Srinath but is consistently quicker and I reckon he moves the ball away more consistently. Surprising but geez, he's one hell of a find for India. Let's hope we don't see him bowling 130km/h length balls in two years time due to poor management. A new era of pace bowling dominance from all countries is at hand, I reckon.

 

[honestbharani]

dunno what the big fuss is about, tbh..


This was the risk we had taken when we picked such a batting side and hopefully, the likes of Rohit Sharma will only learn from this experience... It was an extremely poor shot in any grade of cricket but maybe at the lower levels he might have had a bit of success playing such shots. International cricket is a different pool, obviously and hopefully for his and India's sake, he learns soon.


I am really miffed about Uthappa though.. I know he hasn't had his chances yet and therefore dropping him would be unfair but there is just no way if I was anywhere near the team think tank that I would play him if we are only playing with 5 specialist batsmen... As I have said, he is just too hit or miss... I would have much preferred to have Raina or Karthik there...



And hope it is the last time for a few weeks that we see Munaf playing for us... He is a good bowler, esp. in ODIs but his lethargy and simple lack of cricket sense is appalling, to say the least...... Time to get in Praveen Kumar or Piyush Chawla in his place, I think..

 

[Jono]

Oh okay I get it, Dhoni is the new devil of Indian cricket. I'll keep the eye out for that.

I wonder why it is always that there is a villain in Indian cricket at a certain point in time, yet very rarely is there one in any other country?

God damn we're evil. We have had so many villains, going by the media and the nice fan theories, we could make our own Batman films.

Dhoni seems to be more like Two-Face. Sachin and Ganguly were apparently ganging up on Dravid in the past, so I'd call them Scarecrow and Penguin.

Who is The Joker though?

 

[Top_Cat]

Oh okay I get it, Dhoni is the new devil of Indian cricket. I'll keep the eye out for that.

I wonder why it is always that there is a villain in Indian cricket at a certain point in time, yet very rarely is there one in any other country?

God damn we're evil. We have had so many villains, going by the media and the nice fan theories, we could make our own Batman films.

Dhoni seems to be more like Two-Face. Sachin and Ganguly were apparently ganging up on Dravid in the past, so I'd call them Scarecrow and Penguin.

Who is The Joker though?

Navjot Sidhu? He looks crazed.

I'm of the opinion that what Dhoni said about Sharma was probably right on the money and would have been better handled in private but wasn't that bad. He seemed to paint it as a mistake, not that Sharma is teh suck and shouldn't be in the team.

On an unrelated note, and I'm not sure if I've mentioned it but has anyone noticed the resemblance between Dhoni and NZ actor Cliff Curtis? Uncanny.....

 

[Jono]

Haha holy ****!

I wonder if Dhoni with long hair would look even more identical since Curtis has some nice hair in that photo.

 

[Burgey]

I agree with the concept of having a good fielding side but you cant win games with eleven good fielders. Someone has to score the runs and someone has to take wickets. Batting and bowling skills have to be kept in mind and weighed alongwith the fielding skills.

I do not see how Munaf Patel can make the squad with his obnoxious fielding if that is the sole criteria. It cant be anyone's case that Munaf Patel's bowling has greater merit than Ganguly's batting.

I was really surprised at the pace which Munaf bowled his second spell yesterday. He ssemed down on pace. Is there any word on whether he has suffered another niggling injury, or was it a ploy to take the pace off (still bowled well, mind)?

I don't know if we might be reading too much into Dhoni's comments. I agree he probably ought not have sngled Sharma out, but I recall AB going nuts at a press conference in, I think, NZ in the 80s. He basically said he'd had enough and if the team didn't show more ticker he'd throw it all in. Certainly didnt do him any harm in terms of losing the respect of his players. Again, thoguh, a difference was he didn't single out one player for a mention over the others.

 

[honestbharani]

I was really surprised at the pace which Munaf bowled his second spell yesterday. He ssemed down on pace. Is there any word on whether he has suffered another niggling injury, or was it a ploy to take the pace off (still bowled well, mind)?

I don't know if we might be reading too much into Dhoni's comments. I agree he probably ought not have sngled Sharma out, but I recall AB going nuts at a press conference in, I think, NZ in the 80s. He basically said he'd had enough and if the team didn't show more ticker he'd throw it all in. Certainly didnt do him any harm in terms of losing the respect of his players. Again, thoguh, a difference was he didn't single out one player for a mention over the others.

Lara did something similar after the Windies struggled for a draw against Bangladesh in a home test some time back, IIRC. He basically said, if we don't win the next test, I am resigning. I have had enough of this team.... Not too much worng with that, but I still don't know exactly what Dhoni has said about Sharma yet.