Why aren't South Africa a better side?

[Pratters]

Ngam was awesome. A big loss no doubt.

 

[Perm]

Goughy, over a year on from this thread, are your thoughts on Ashwell Prince still the same?

 

[Goughy]

Goughy, over a year on from this thread, are your thoughts on Ashwell Prince still the same?

Yes and no.

He has gone up in my estimations but not to the extent that if he broke both legs tomorrow that Id think South Africa would miss him much.

My opinion is currently that he is a decent Test cricketer that I dont think will ever be anything special that is making a mark at a time of career when others tend to be at their peak and that he has been given every privelige and opportunity throughout his career that SA cricket has had to offer him.

He is a manufactured player that has done better than I thought (especially the India innings) but still isnt a major factor in SA success.

He is very much a role player that will do ok. I still dont think that he is one of the top 6 South African batsmen.

However, despite being a roleplayer, his role has grown due to his increased experience and the legion of experienced players that are no longer availalbe for selection (compared to even 18 months ago).

 

[Perm]

Not saying I disagree with you, but there are a couple of things I'd like some more clarification and explanation about.

He has gone up in my estimations but not to the extent that if he broke both legs tomorrow that Id think South Africa would miss him much.

Firstly, I realise that South Africa's next Test series is against Bangladesh, so most established batsmen and some of the fringe ones won't be worrying too much and I don't think it will make a great difference whether Prince plays or not, given the strength of the opposition. However, against tougher opposition, do you think that McKenzie, Rudolph or any of the other batsmen dominating domestic cricket would do a better job than Prince?

He is a manufactured player that has done better than I thought (especially the India innings) but still isnt a major factor in SA success.

You could argue that lately only Kallis and Steyn have been the ones bringing South Africa success, with small contributions from others from time to time. His average of almost 70 in South African wins since 2005 (when he established himself in the side) is pretty good, and seems to disagree with your opinion of him not being a major factor in his teams success.

I still dont think that he is one of the top 6 South African batsmen.

Who, in your opinion, are better than him?

 

[Salamuddin]

The Saffies look to have a decent pace attack (although Ntini is definitely a better bowler at home than he is away and Steyn still is pretty unproven).

But their batting is very, very overrated. Kallis is the only reliable player they have ad that's not enough to challenge a team like Australia.

A very good team at home but I'm still unconvinced about their ability away from home....the tours of India and England will provide a good indicator of how good they really are.

 

[Flem274*]

The Saffies look to have a decent pace attack (although Ntini is definitely a better bowler at home than he is away and Steyn still is pretty unproven).

But their batting is very, very overrated. Kallis is the only reliable player they have ad that's not enough to challenge a team like Australia.

A very good team at home but I'm still unconvinced about their ability away from home....the tours of India and England will provide a good indicator of how good they really are.

Yeah true. I don't know much about the Pakistan games but when we played them our lack of batting ability and the Kallis and Amla show were big parts of their victory. The rest didn't do alot.

I like the look of the young ones coming through though, who do they play after Bangladesh?

 

[pup11]

The Saffies look to have a decent pace attack (although Ntini is definitely a better bowler at home than he is away and Steyn still is pretty unproven).

But their batting is very, very overrated. Kallis is the only reliable player they have ad that's not enough to challenge a team like Australia.

A very good team at home but I'm still unconvinced about their ability away from home....the tours of India and England will provide a good indicator of how good they really are.

I don't think their home record in recent times have been that good either, if you have a look at their home test record since the Australia toured South Africa in 06, they have played 14 test's and won 8 and lost 6, though that is not exactly an awful record, as they won every home series since then except getting white-washed by Australia, but it still isn't the kind of record one would expect from them.
The current side looks promising so lets see how they perform, while touring outside South Africa.

 

[Goughy]

A thing about Prince as well is that he has played 26 of his 36 or so Tests at home. What value is placed on that is up for debate.

Regarding Amla. I like Amla. He has earned his opportunities in the Test side. He does have technical issues but in itself that isnt a problem. Its how you play and manage those deficiencies thats important.

He is still pretty young and has time to model his game to minimise the impact of those problems. Many others have done just that. Its possible that he will crash and burn and never work his game out properly but he has deserved his chances through weight of Domestic runs and the chance to grow into a role at the next level.

 

[Jono]

The Saffies look to have a decent pace attack (although Ntini is definitely a better bowler at home than he is away and Steyn still is pretty unproven).

But their batting is very, very overrated. Kallis is the only reliable player they have ad that's not enough to challenge a team like Australia.

A very good team at home but I'm still unconvinced about their ability away from home....the tours of India and England will provide a good indicator of how good they really are.

I know in the past you were a critic of South Africa, but after their series win to Pak you believed they were the second best team in the world. I think they'd have to beat both England and India away to lay any such claim, so I agree with you there that those two tours will be a litmus test of how good they are.